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Romanticism

Women and money

Love, money and women

If this was an IQ test and you see three words: money, girls and love, which one does not go with the others? What is your answer seriously?

Do women go for rich guys, that is men with money? Not in my book. I do not care what some Freudian looking academic will tell you about how women want to marry a millionaire, you can get girls without money. Sure many girls are attracted to a rich guy like a fish to a shiny fishing lure. However, I have had money and I have not and for me it made no difference in terms of attracting girls. And the girls that go for money governed by their appetite desires and reptilian brains are not worthy of you.

American women and money – Many American women have high expectations in terms of men and wealth. They after all are seeking to attract a potential mate and provider.  American girls have a reputation of being materialistic. When I use to date a girl like that, I would simply explain, ‘if you marry for money it will be the hardest way to earn it’, and dropped them like a bad habit.  Do not let yourself be talked into the American cultural idea that money and marriage and love are connected. They are not.  Love and money are never ever connected.

There was a time when I was unemployed and I think I was dating the most women and of the best quality. There was a time when I had a high-powered six figure job and I dated losers.

Personal examples of love for love not money

  • When I meet my wife I was unemployed, lived in a 190 square foot apartment and had no car. Oh one more thing, I spend an inordinate amount of time talking about what good price I got on carrot juice.  She is a beautiful spiritual person.
  • My brother when he got married 30 years ago had no income, really they lived on cordial dogs and noodles and now he is a millionaire . The funny thing about it is they say they are just as happy as they were when they are poor. With love cash makes no difference.
  • My mother married my father who was a very poor man. He grew up in a two room apartment with eight people, he slept on the floor. My mother’s family was in the United States longer and was much better off. They have been married 59 years and he is a millionaire.  Of course, when they were poor they loved each other just the same, it makes no difference if you are a spiritual person.

A well paid job is highly over rated

Guys wake up, the biggest lie when you are in your 20s is a well paid job is something good to strive for. In your 30s maybe you still believe this as you see other guys pulling ahead of you and you need to compete. If you still are believing this myth in your 40s you probably should have a big ‘L ‘ on your forehead.

Think of movie stars, they all get divorced. They all have tons of assets and basically all, with few exceptions, get divorced. VIPs are unhappy.  There are no Romeo and Juliets among that crowd. Consider this:

  • Rich guys are poor in dating – All, not some mind you, of my rich lawyer friends and business capitals of industry got less women to choose from than I.  I am not Brad Pitt either. I could date many intelligent beautiful women as a poor man. Guys that work all the time or were attracting women with money, got very fake boring girls and lower quality in terms of looks. Trust me on this love and money are two different ideas.
  • A high paid job will cost you in terms of health. You will be in for a short life and a sluggish, mildly depressed life.
  • A high paid job destroys your soul if you start to attach your ego to it. All you will be is your money, what happened to the child inside you?
  • Most guys that are high paid are boring and girls know this. Any guy that is interesting will get more girls that could fall in love with him than a rich guy. Girls do not respect rich men. I do not know why. They laugh at them.
  • Poor guys and women – Many poor guys are total player and have wives and many kids. Rich guys if they get married they have like 1 or 2 and their wives leave them.
  • I see really rich and famous guys marry hopeless women. I see many poor guys marry submissive beautiful fairly tale princess they that will cherish them all the days of their lives.

If you have not figured it out by now, the corporate world is sticks. This is not living. I understand if you need to pay the bills but do not put your ego and pride into your job. A job is just that, to pay the bills if does not define you.If you understand this you will not have to worry about girls and money. Love is something spiritual. Love is from God.

Girls do not want wealthy guys, this is a distorted view of reality, women want sincere loving men to be interested in them even if they do not work on Wall Street. At least the really beautiful women do not go for rich guys. That is the rule.

What to do on a date if you have no money

  • Go to a used bookstore and buy some worn out copy of your favorite writer and take your date to a park bench and read to her. Make it a big deal, pick some flowers and make some peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. If you have charm this will work better than any expensive restaurant.
  • Walk along the river and charm her with fantastic stories of your childhood.
  • Tell her about your family or friends or something you are passionate about while you sit in a meadow.

These are a few ideas to start. But if you start from the beginning that money is not part of your relationship, then she has no choice but to love you for who you are. If she does not, it is better you go your separate ways as she is not poet enough to see your beauty.

What if you are poor and can not get a date? Put your life in God’s hands and say God whatever you want of me, thy will be done. There is someone for everyone and if you open your mind and heart and ask the universe to bring you what you need in your heart of hearts and you will use your gifts for Gods work on this earth, you will be able to move mountains. You will not get any more dates, you will get your one and only love. However, you must be willing to give up all that you have, including your attachment to money to find this peal of great price.

What about women who have financial plans, believe in prenups and mutual funds

Good for them, do they want love or money. God give each of us a very limited time here and God is love. God does not care about your bank account. If you want to live like your divine creator, a life of love and fulfillment, enter relationships not based on cash, but love. Love is always enough.

What about all these financial adviser women and lawyers tell you that you need a prenuptial agreement and love and money are to be well thought out? I would not ever date any of them, they are some 40 something girls with short hair and a control stick to grid. They are lost souls.

Oh one more thing, they are not attractive on bit. These women financial gurus and advisors are not exactly cordial.

If not money what do women want?

They want someone who makes their heart skip a beat when they come into the room, someone who turns their world upside down, that if you tell them to turn the page of a book they will. Someone who makes the moon appear in the sky and the stars shine at night. You can be a total geek with no money, but if you are a girl’s champion and with all the sincerity in your heart believe she is your other half and pursue her and look her in the eye and tell her you need her, until she has no choice but to love you, then this is what a women wants. Total surrender.

By Mark Biernat

I live in with family between two worlds, US and Europe where I create tools for language learning. If you found my site you probability share my passion to be a life long learner. Please explore my site and comment.

102 replies on “Women and money”

This basically makes perfect sense to me. I would not go for a guy because he has money, in fact for me -1 if he has money, +1 if he does not. Love comes from the heart, I am a woman I know.

I wish this were true. Sadly in my life at this point i have seen the opposite. Women are motivated completely by money. i have been rejected in my life on the basis of not having a car, not having things that they believe are worthy. Despite me having money and more they never see the value of my heart. Only what they think I do not have.

That is why you need to find the girl who is not about money. I know 100s and 100s. Really. I have even thought of starting a dating site, but really not my style. I know so many girls that tell me and really do not care about money at all. They are humble girls from the countryside that lived with nothing except their faith. I know I married one. 🙂
Maybe try to live in Eastern Europe for a few months teaching English.
Otherwise it is like going to an insurance agent and saying, hi guys I think I need some insurance. Everyone will sell you. No, you need to know what you are looking for and find it.

First, it is good to encourage Eastern European women to look for husbands in the West – Western men, if chosen carefully, make the best partners and husbands.

Romantic love itself, of course, has nothing to do with money.

However, marriage and partnership does. And financial security is one of the most important factors in mating. Many women are naturally drawn to security, to a strong man. Traditionally the man’s role has been that of a provider. The woman traditionally takes care of the household and the children, you insist that the woman should cook and clean, yet what will the man do? You state that it is ok for the man to be poor, yet still insist that the woman be feminine and submissive. No, this is not fair. If you want to have a submissive, younger woman who will cook and clean and not think about “career” (money making, paying bills, etc), then you will have to be the man and fulfill the manly duties. Of course, materialism in the West is rampant and consumerism is wrong – it should be stopped. But that is another issue. The issue is the division of gender roles. In the worldview that you propagate, the man is the provider thus the man must make money. That goes without saying and there is no discussing that.

In Eastern Europe, where I live, men are expected to work, often to provide for the family and as a rule men meet the bill when dating and pay at the restaurants. This is fair because the woman is expected in turn to look very feminine, sometimes glammed up, – she is expected to act very femininely. In return, the guy pays. This is not the case in the West where the bills are split in half. Western men are much less likely to pay for a woman’s meal or drinks when they date (as everyone is to himself). So if you don’t deliver as a man in a traditional role, then you are in no position to expect the woman to fulfill her traditional female duties. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

Eowyn, thanks for the input. My response is this, if you make money an issue, even on their first date, it will be an issue. There is no way I would take a woman out and buying her dinner and drinks. I do not know if I ever really did that with my wife during the dating phase. If she wants to be with me she will be with me if I am reading her poetry in a meadow.
My wife and I sat in the park and talked.
I am sorry I am 100% man and I enjoy working but I do not put it out there with women I will be a traditional boring man who makes a deal with a girl that she looks feminine. I will work and earn money and she will wear heels.
The deal is this. The person is my spiritual partner in life or not. Spirit and God are about love not money. Either a woman is my soul mate for all time and accepts me for richer for poorer and in good times and in bad or not. All or nothing.
That being said, I like to create and work and when you like self expression money will flow to you, if that is what God wills. But it does not enter into the equation of love. Love is from the giver of all gifts from above.

Also, it is surprising how you can print such blatant lies. It is not true that most women do not care about a man’s earning power. Especially in Eastern Europe, where there are so view affluent men, they are particularly sought out by women. Women look for security for their future children. It is generally a rule in all cultures that the more affluent the man, the more beautiful the young woman he can attract. This is the rule of the patriarchy.

Only in more free, developed societies (a few European societies), where gender equality exists, do women chose men for other reasons (looks, personality, ability to father).

I think women look for sincerity, honesty and someone who will make their heart skip a beat when they come into the room. Someone who is their soul mate and turns their world upside down, rich or poor.
For me love is all or nothing, not an agreement between two parties, that is something else.
I see the girlfriends of reptilian brained guys and no way gross. I think a traditional provider guy can not even touch a guy with charm and sincerity and self confidence. Not that a provider guy is bad at all, and he may have charm etc, but never ever should money and the ability to provide be factored into the equation.
Either you believe in your man’s heart and soul or you do not.
Did you now see the movie ‘Slumdog millionaire’?
Did you see the movie ‘Titanic’? Who did Rose go for, the rich, wealthy guy or her love?
Play to win baby and you will, all or nothing.

Everyone is different, and, as I said, romantic love does not have a direct connection with money or the man’s earning power. And I myself have also had many of my dates either in a park, a poetry club, in the forest or on the country side or at home. I never insisted for the guy to pay if we went out in more urban settings. I have had poor and jobless lovers and I did not care because I loved them as they were. But I am aware that many girls, especially the really beautiful ones, in Eastern Europe do require that and feel that it goes without saying.

I prefer it the romantic way, and I agree that it is best. But there is no need to deny that in reality and in most cases, the women will care about the man’s earning power. Whereas you generalized and said they do not care. Which is very far from the truth and reality. Western men should not be mislead to think that Eastern European women do not care if they are poor or not. Especially if you are past your early 20s and are starting to think about family and possibly raising kids, the issue of economic security becomes important. There is no need to deny the obvious. If you insist on the traditional setting, then the man should be a man. There is a stronger gender division in Eastern Europe and it is often considered amoral if a man does not hold a job and is not able to provide.

Ok so you are a romantic. However, I do not think most girls go for money and power. That is the biggest myth. Like I said, girls like to say this but the reality is they go for like the song says ‘my guy’. People all over the world like to say girls go for guys with money, but have you taken a look at a lot of the guys with money, they are either boring, workaholics, care about protecting their money or not that attractive. Girls do not go for VIP guys. Girls go for a hero, however that is defined.
Even thing of mythology, did the corpulent Roman businessman or get girls? yeah I guess some but that is not love. Did you not see the movie ‘Last of the Mohegans’, who go the girl?

There are plenty of providers that are charming, sincere and romantic. And there are bums who are egotistic and have personality issues. This is not the point.

The point is, if one wants to create a traditional family, a uninion to raise children, economic security becomes important. And in a traditional, esp. Christian, setting it is the man, the male partner, who makes the money and pays for things. The woman is there to cook, clean, nurse the child, be submissive and friendshipy. It is problematic when a guy wants a traditional female, yet does not want to be traditional himself. I have encountered this with some guys in the West and I have heard about Western guys who are used to splitting the bills with their “materialistic” Western girlfriends, become all surprised when their new Asian or Eastern European girlfriend expects them to fulfill the traditional male role and pay for the date.

Do not insist on women to be submissive and ethereal if you cannot be dominant and protective in all senses. It is better then to have real social and economic equality instead and just focus on each other’s personality and soul.

Great comments, thanks, however, I respectfully disagree, I always got a lot more dates than any of my rich friends. I do fairly well now and that has not changed anything in the way people relate to me. I know my provider friends got much less desirable dates than I. And I am no Brad Pitt.
If you are straight and strong in your character, who cares about these external manifestations of power like money or earnings potential. People will sense who you are. You can not fool women too easy. They have a monitor their brains somewhere and they know what a guy is about inside and women by their nature can see threw men. The question is does the woman ignore and settle or go for her prince?
Eastern European girls (I live in Poland do not care about money, with some exceptions of course). Some post soviet countries maybe people are thinking in different ways as spirituality does not permeate the society as much.
However, I do not insist on a girl to be submissive and ethereal, if she wants to roar like a lion, let her, but she is not getting the guy in ‘Last of the Mohegans’ or Braveheart, she is getting some ‘Big’ from ‘s_x in he city’.
You create your own reality and if you want to Carrie this is what you will get.
On the other hand, if you are a princess you will get a prince.
That is the reality.

It is not really a matter of finding some guy with a job in Europe and America, it is more a matter of finding a man with the courage of his convictions, who lives in an authentic way. This is what women want, their champion who saves them in every sense of the word.
Money and love are almost diametrically opposed. If you mix them in your notion and quest for love you are comprising something.

We cannot generalize. Girls are different.. women are different. So are men. Girls are different than women. I think it’s not wise to generalize, we can only talk about trends.. but even trends are different.

I think if we look at the old sagas, that world is slightly different. Some of it is gone. And for romantic people like us it is difficult sometimes because we have to compromise. I mean, how many princes are left there after all… hardly any. I have personally found where the princes are.. but it is not in the mainstream. Yet with the mainstream people I deal with the harsh rules of materialism.

I did say a few times that money and love do not mix. Love exists independently…
It is family and marriage as an institution and money that are connected. Which is still normal and natural.

Yes you did say that. 🙂
Sorry I guess I am really idealistic, but live it also.

Eowyn,
Remember wealth is very relative. Our grandparents and parents lived in very different times. Think about communist time and how hard it was for people or feudal times. No matter what the media says about the crisis, people are not staving in Europe. You may make only 800 USD a month but this is good compared to 25 years ago when they only had vinegar in the shops and you had to stand in line for 8 hours for bread. Times are easy today. You can go to Norway and pick apples for a few years or clean fish and come back home and build a house.
My point is, my parents and grandparents and great grand parents lived in hard economic times and they married the people with no money and they were happy, so can we.
You are right, you said money and love do not mix and you gave many examples. 🙂
I guess I am so passionate about it as I live it with all my heart, and I am a dude, not some girl reading Jane Austen.

I really think admin puts forward an overly-romantic and idealistic theory not grounded in day-to-day life. For a start, not all women have needed rescuing and therefore the “hero” concept is unrealised. Some women live in stable, safe locales where they don’t really need to be rescued from “bad guys”, poverty or any other problem. Not all women need a protector. The more I read, the more I come to the conclusion that men benefit more than women when they enter into a relationship (married men live longer than their single, male counterparts for a start). The POPULAR notion is that men are the heroes who save women. What about the heroic _women_ who, for example, meet a guy with a criminal record (someone who could easily die aged 30 in self-inflicted squalor) and decide she can change him and make him a productive member of society? Those women are heroes but no guy likes to say he needed rescued.

You say “charm her with fantastic stories of your childhood”. Not all women want to hear about how you stole apples and successfully evaded the authorities. A *LOT* of women would rather have a guy who can drive them around and buy them jewels and lingerie.

I’m not sure he understands the concept of “all other things being equal”. AOTBE, women prefer a hero to a coward, and someone who is “true to himself”; but they also take attractiveness and wealth into account – how much weight they give these critera depends on the woman. “I go for looks, not money.” We’ve all heard a woman say that. Men’s weighting criteria when it comes to women can vary. You probably look for a loyal, caring, interesting, patient lady, but like most men you give quite a lot of weight to looks, not much weight to her wealth.

Not everyone lives in the countryside where sitting around in parks is the main past-time. Some of us live in cities where the ability to drive or fly to a holiday destination at will indicates you have status, power, money and therefore some increased attractiveness.

Steve, great comment. In fact this is one of the common myths out there today, that women do not need to be rescued, women can do it on their own. Like in the Matrix ‘there are levels of existence’. Yes women (and men) can survive without each other. But that is not living.
All women need to be rescued, that is not idealism that is reality. That is the way the world works and nature set it up.
Women were always independent and strong, but they always needed a hero. And if a guy is not the woman’s hero and rescue her in every sense of the word, than it is a hard road for that relationship.

Women that want jewels and lingerie are not people I would ever consider. Those are very primitive women who somehow got lost. In fact those are the women that need to be rescued the most and taught that money and material things are not love. These are the girls that need to be reduced the most.
Most likely you live in the west either America or the UK. These girls talk a lot about money and looks. Well they are not for me. Girls talk like that when they have lost their way and stopped believing in fairy-tales.
Basically every human being is beautiful if you look deep enough in their soul and their soul is beautiful. There is someone for everyone. I am not being idealistic. You do not have to be rich or good-looking to get a girl.
My general advice to guys is consider falling in love with someone who is not the girl. Try considering someone out of your culture, because the world is full of opportunities. If you want to find a girl who will love you for who you are (not your money or power or looks) but your honesty and sincerity and goodness, you will.
All girls need to be wow, he is amazing, he swept me off my feet. Expensive presents are nothing more than guys getting lazy and lack imagination to do it in non money related ways.
Show your girl who ideals are real and you will reduce her.

I wouldn’t agree that it is much easier now than in the communist times. Everyone was poor back then but there was a very rigid safety net. One can even say that on the economic level, it served as a minimalist welfare state. Now there is hardly any. Sure there was no freedom (the worst part), but then again there was also no p_rnogr_phy and there was less cheating. Sure, there is more stuff and more comfort for some now and it is certainly much better this way, but generally life has become much more complicated and it is harder to survive. Do you think it is normal for a person who loves their own country and wants to build a family here to be forced to go to Norway to do second class citizen jobs? There are women who even have to leave their children to go make money abroad. Families fall apart because the man leaves to go to the UK. Do you really think that it’s so great? It is humiliating and it doesn’t pay that well either (you certainly can’t build a house). On the other hand, it is great of course to be able to go to the West, and even in Eastern Europe life is great, but it is not easy. Above all it is not easy because there is no more a safety net. It is especially tough for women. Hence the incredibly low birthrates which have entered a death spiral. Since life in Eastern Europe is much more cruel than in the West, women have less support, they have to struggle more, so they have less children. With the current birthrates, in about 10 years time you will have much less Eastern European beauties to marvel about simply because they will not have been born.

For me money and love do not mix directly, as I pick based on looks and personality. The guy’s income is usually not the first thing I look at. But many of my girlfriends consider that important. First, the man’s income doesn’t only signify that he is rich, it shows that he is active, driven and smart. It shows that he possesses alpha qualities and that he could protect the family. This is very important in Eastern Europe where there is hardly enough gender equality and women are poor. For many women it goes without saying that a man should earn more. Simply in order to help the family.

And unfortunately there is one very specific trend in Eastern Europe. It is the trend of empty glamour and materialism. This is a backlash to the communist system where there was no diversity or wealth. This gave rise to excesses that were inspired by Western media. Flashy cars like you don’t see in the streets of Western Europe because people here want to show off. Women flaunting their s_xuality and wearing heels even to do the groceries, etc. To attract rich guys. This also gave rise to pr_stituti_n and s_x trade (because of inequality). In my eyes this is a very unhealthy trend.

And, no, women do not need to be rescued. Women are adults, just like men. And a man who is a ‘hero’ is just someone you admire for his qualities and character. Women need a man who will respect them as individuals, support them emotionally, please them in bed, be great friends and be good fathers.

Eowyn, Great points but consider this:
Money in Eastern Europe – We are very lucky that we live in Eastern Europe economically speaking. Why? Where else can you go to Norway and clean fish for a couple of years and pay cash for a nice new house in the countryside when you return back home. This is what many Polish people do. They work five years and build a house for cash. This is unheard of in the USA unless you are a millionaire. Norweigns or Brits can not do this as they live in a high currency country and must spend a lifetime to pay off their hosue. Everyone in the USA I know has a 30 + year mortgage student loans and worried about medical insurance.
Also at 40,000 dollar a year for education it would cost 1 child to get a masters in the USA is 1/4 million dollars. In Eastern Europe things are very easy if you have a global business or work aboard for a few years. And abroad like Norway, for example, is not far away, it would be like a guy from Texas going to NYC for a few years. It is no big deal. The purchasing power index is wonderful.
So I think Europe and the USA is easy in terms of money as long as you are willing to work. I live better in Krakow than I did in Boston when I was making over 10,000 dollars a month.
Material values are tempting women – This has always been the case, but you are right, even more now women are being lured by money. I do not care, I warn people to stay away from women like that. Only marry a non-materialistic woman, I would prefer a hippie girl than a love and money girl. Some girls say they want “love and money”, I walk away from those disasters, it is very un-spiritual.
Character is destiny If a man is willing to be brave and express himself economically instead of working for outsourcing center or some paper pushing job at an international company, than he has courage. It does not matter if he ever gets rich, he is not afriad to live his life. Go for a man with a pure heart and soul and authenically living his life. This is better than a corporate suit (which I was and nothing wrong if that is what you like to do in your heart).
All women need to be rescued – I am not backing down on this point. Look at all the movie stars that have all the money in the world, the actresses, but their lives are a mess. They need a guy who can save them, and men need a woman who can save them from themselves, this has nothing to do with money. Your partner in life should save you from your own patterns of self-doubt, depression or ‘I know it all, I can take care of myself’, save you from your self-made purgatory. We are all condemned to live in our own self-made purgatories.

ps. your English is great by the way, I do not know how you became so good in English. And your observations are really appreciated.

You are right that it is cheaper in many aspects than in the US (and even more so than in the UK). The people in the US seem to live on credit too much, which is only a recent phenomena here (and I hope it doesn’t grow because I believe it is a crazy system). You are right on some of those points, but it is not as rosy as you paint. Sure, in Poland things are pretty well because, to be honest – Poland is one of the most prosperous Eastern European countries and it wasn’t hit that heavy by the crisis. Even in the old times, Poland was considered rich because it had a strong agricultural sector and some entrepreneurial freedom. You are very lucky to live in Poland because it is a relatively Westernized country, the women there are just like the women in the West in a sense that they work just as much as men and also take on the household duties. Yet at the same time, they are not as assertive as Western women and they are still thin. So for a male (both Polish and Western) this is a great and advantageous combination. Almost perfect, because it would have been much harder to be a male in the US or in the more traditional countries, such as Arab or Asian countries where males have more duties.
But speaking of economy… not all countries fare so well as Poland, not all are low currency countries. And again, it’s great to have Norway next door, but it’s really not the best destiny to be a gest arbeiter (currently the West is ing up the young labor force of Eastern Europe leaving the home countries destitute and underdeveloped). And I doubt you can build a house from the money you make abroad. You need about 100 thousand euro to build a decent house. The prices are too high for the local salaries. But again if you live in Krakow, then you are in a really good position. It is a nice place and rather affluent. For a Western man it is a great deal because of the reasons I mentioned. I’m sure if you had to stay in the States, you would have to work much harder. Besides, the crazy thing about America (as much as we love it), is that while you’re there, you have to consume continuously – you cannot even step very far outside of your house without buying or consuming something. There is nothing like that here. Well.. if you made 10K dollars a month.. I guess it is above the average, I assume then you get about 7K after taxes. That is quite good even for the US (unless you’ re heavily in debt). You do well with that money but you don’t get the beautiful women that you get in Poland. 🙂

About money.. I am essentially what you would call a hippie girl. But I also understand the realities of a woman’s life. It is a natural instinct for a woman to seek material security because she has to raise children. She cannot do this all by herself so easily. Since there are no welfare systems here (unlike in the West where women are protected by those), the women here tend to seek out richer men. Also, like I said, men in Eastern Europe are more likely than Western men to pay for dates. I notice this stark difference very much as I travel from one side to another. But I do agree that America is very materialistic.

I don’t want to stress money so much, money is not really a value in itself. It is only what it brings. If it brings security, then it is good. One doesn’t need a super luxurious lifestyle, it suffices to be middle or upper middle class, e.g., have a nice abode, be in a position to afford some free time, be able to travel and pay for the culture events, be able to save and above all, take care of the children (including their education). One doesn’t really need more than that.

Of course, when you look for a guy you look at his heart first. It doesn’t matter what he does as long as it is legal and as long as he is able to pay his own bills and in the future pay for his child’s needs. What you want is a hard working guy who is active and will participate in family life. It is better that he be there for you, instead of devoting all to his job.

I understand your point about rescuing one’s partner. Of course, your partner can help tremendously in improving your spiritual life.

Thanks, my English is indeed fine, I guess. It is much better in fact, I’m just not working very my sentences right now, just trying to get my point across. 🙂

Yes Poland is nice to live in.
Further, living in Krakow is a very western tourist city. We have more shopping malls than I have ever seen in one area. These mega malls and nice consumer goods make it like a cheap USA but more charming life. Thank you for saying nice things about Poland. I love the country.
In Poland you can build a house for about 600-700 dollars a meter (if you get Ukrainian materials, like wood, from the mountains even less). That means for a 150 meter house, all new and finished, it will cost you about 90,000 dollars. My friends built one for about 70,000 dollars and it looks like an American house. Not bad. In American it would be 300% more depending on the area or at least 200% more.
Money or otherwise you can do anything you put your mind to
If you live in a country hit by the crisis, think in a different way. You are in a global economy, it does not matter. Your English is great, you can work as a copy writter and get paid in dollars, you can do anything in your country that any other entrepreneur in the world can do. You can write a book (several of my friends here are published authors) have websites anything, sell things to England (some of my friends do this).
Think of the Amish in America, they are America’s most successful business community with only a 5% failure rate (compared to the average of 50% in five years for most Americans). They use no techonology like computers or mobile phone, but they create things of value. Therefore, they grow rich. They are simple farmers. You can make sundried tomatos, have an Inn. My Ukrainian friend sold her brothers car and bought a van and started a travel agency (her brother was upset but they are rich now).
So I think unless you need to be plugged into the matrix, I mean local economy of jobs, it is better to live in Eastern Europe. It just takes patience and a belief in yourself.
Love and money or at least a guy who can pay the bills
You my friend I am sure could get your prince. I have read everything you wrote and if you really wanted to you could find the one guy that would turn your world upside down and rescue you, because you are bright and humble and have intellectual curiosity. If I were you I would not settle for anything less.
Why are you so guarded about your statements, like:
– ‘as long as he can pay the bills’ again, every guy can pay the bills. So many of my American friends that are girls found a guy with a good job. Now the same guy is in debt and no job, and he is mildly depressed.
I have other friends, like the guy that worked at the coffee shop who everyone snubed as going nowhere except is girlfriend who did not care and loved him. He became an entreupreur and rolling in cash.
I know another couple who started a Bagel business and now own five. They were so poort. Real poor like had no were to live but then rented a one room place while she was a waitress. They did it on no money. They started in their flat, started making bagels. At first they had so much money in the first year they keep the money in jars in their kitchen as they knew nothing about banking. Now again they have millions.
Another guy I know living in Boston who could not pay the bills, him and his girlfriend lived on popcorn and water. But she loved him and believed in him and stayed with him. They put a little cheese on the pocorn and it tasted good. They marketed it and they are worth 10s of millions of dollars.
Meanwhile the ‘guy who could pay the bills’ can not even do that now and is depressed.
Having a good job is the most overated thing in the world.
Go only for the guy with the heart and God will reward you.
Go for the guy who can pay the bills and you will have nothing special.
Play to win. All or nothing. Either your soulmate or nobody.

You don’t have to thank me for saying good things about Poland, I have always respected that neighboring country (I’m in the Baltics). As I said, Poland is very Westernized and stable. I think if you lived in Belorus or some parts of Russia or even in Asia, it would be very different. Newsweek just published a study on the world’s best countries – Poland is nr29, so relatively high. In comparison, Russia is 51 – so you must realize that life in Russia would be much different and strenuous, even for a Westerner. Poland is also very pro-American, unlike Russia. So if you have an ok income, living in Poland is pretty much like living in the West, just cheaper and the women are nicer.

I myself have not suffered from the crisis, in fact, I have a stable job that pays almost the Western level salary. I also have nice property so I’m very well set. And in case I would have to get a new job, it would not be a problem, because I’m very competitive. Btw, I’m very interested in having a second job, something similar to what you mentioned, to have more income on the side. You mentioned your friends are authors, are they able to make a living with that?
However, I cannot say everybody is faring that well, unfortunately. It is easy for you to say because you are from the West. You can always fall back on your US citizenship. We live in open economies that are affected by globalization. We cannot all live like peasants anymore, while Westerners who are more industrialized travel to our countries and spend money here, thus driving up the prices. It is not fair. We cannot move back to the country side while richer folks come in and buy up our property and companies. This is not a good option for any country. But you are right that people will have to stop spending, not just here, but everywhere, even in America. So moving to the country side is generally advisable. You will not be able to spend to the extent that you do now. The unemployment will not go away and might aggravate. People will have to adopt a more self sufficient lifestyle, similar to that of the Amish.

I still think it is important for the guy to have a decent job. He must pay his own bills. I have dated guys who didn’t but I’m over that now. I will not date a guy who is jobless, unless he is very cute, super loyal and does all the household chores instead (and raises the baby). It is ok to date a jobless guy when you’re in your late teens and early 20s, when you have your super romantic puppy love, but when you get older and become more serious, start thinking about family, then your expectations change. I’m an independent, responsible individual who supports herself, asking the same from my male counterpart is just normal. It has nothing to do with romance.

My friends that are authors and other types of earning a living do well. In face all my friends that do their own thing make more than any of my friends with a real job. In a capitalist economy you are either a serf or an owner. Own the process and you are better off.
Here is one of my friends books for example. amishbusinessbook.com – I do not know how he did on this book but he was on CNN and in Time etc. He is coming out with another book in Polish (he taught himself Polish). So it does not matter what your job is it is more if you are intellectually curious.

When I meet my wife I lived in a 19 meter flat and was unemployed, washing my clothes in the sink and eating potatoes. She did not care.
I did not pay for anything, she did not care. We watched movies on my computer and sat on park benches. If she was OK with that and she was the one for me.
If someone is unemployed it is usually not because they are lazy, just thinking of the next steps. I graduated first in my class, I a smart guy, just because I was not in a good position in life meant nothing. And only the pure in heart would understand see my beauty. My wife did. Other girls would be like oh a guy with out a decent job.
I will disagree, a decent job is not important. It means nothing. It could even mean you lack self confidence even. I believe in myself and always dropped people who did not believe in me or tried to define me by my job or whatever.
As a Christian the only thing that matters in life is you are here to be a loving person. A loving person to share your life with someone who loves you, not the fact you have a job or not.
I think love is not about health or beauty or money or job or anything other than love. Women often have said I want love + a guy that makes a living. I disagree.
However, you know I am not perfect or saying I am morally better, on the contrary, it is just my vision of the world, it is kind of based on the Bible. Love and money are always two different things.

Another one of my friends was unemployed and disabled as he has a spinal cord injury. He got married anyway. His girl loved him. All he could do was basically lay in bed. His wife loved him no matter what.
He now, ten years latter, paid off his house in cash, had major a spinal operation and walks fine and three kids and gets to stay home all day with his kids as his business does so well. I can give you his business site address if you want. Wow can you imagine if his wife did not marry him.
Me I have such joy to be at home all day with my wife and daughter and work from home. My 23 month old gets up in the morning and pulls out the chess set and wants to play with Tata. Can you imagine if my wife just looked at the fact that I did not have a decent job when we were dating. She now has a husband who is home all day with her and our daughter at 23 months is learning English, Polish and Chinese and loves to play chess. I do not care if she plays chess or anything but, it is a lot of fun, she loves it because Tata is home all day and she can spend time with him.
A decent job is highly over rated.
Its always about the person. I asked my wife, just a second ago and asked her what about money etc, she said ‘coś ty’ (that means ‘come on’ in Polish).
And your from the Baltics. That is great. I like people from Eastern Europe. 🙂
Oh about that ranking of countries, Finland is number 1 along with other northern countries. I think that is just one person’s opinion. It’s so dark up there, even darker than our countries if it is possible. 🙂

I have visited an Amish village and they seem really admirable. Also, their home made food is some of the best food I’ve ever had.

Well.. looking at your page, it seems that you have all kinds of expectations for women and the way you treat American women is appaling (yes, they are too overweight, but not all and they have the right to be that – they work a lot… the only thing I could advise American women is to appreciate the men just a little bit more, not spoil them, like Eastern European women do to their men, but show appreciation for the good deeds the American med do). You seem to hold the girls to a very high standard, yet not the men. It is strange that you ask so much of the girls and so little of men.

You don’t have to mention to me about poverty. My parents were both poor when they men, yet they were hard working. We lived in 15 square meters for a long time, a family of four. My parents were very humble and poor, yet they stayed monogomous all their life and my dad never cheated on mom (even though he is slightly younger). My mom never rejected my dad even though he was just a young factory worker back then and didn’t even have a university education. Now they are well off. So I know first hand that love has nothing to do with money.

That said… the Western men should not be mislead to think that Eastern European women don’t care about how much they make. They do. Many of them are used to being paid for on dates. I’m just stating the facts.. the objective situation. No, not all of them are gold diggers, the majority aren’t.. but they do like masculine men who can take care of the lady.

Many women here support their nan through illness, I would readily support my guy if he fell ill. Or if he was temporarily unemployed. But I would expect him to do the same for me. This is what you do for your partner. And I’ve seen Western men stand by their wives when they’re ill.. I really marvel at that. How many of them treat their wife when she’s pregnant is also comendable.
And I didn’t mean that the job itself is the issue (if you work from home that is already a decent job if you can earn enough), it is the guy’s willingness to work and to support his family. He must be lazy.

Like I said, most of my dates have been just like that – in a park, a concert or at home watching fantasy movies or listening to our favorite music.

It is great if a guy spends more time at home and with the kids. This is how they’re striving to live in Northern Europe and I think this is ideal.

I’m not surprised that Finland is on top, in fact, it is refreshing to see it swap places with Sweden, my ideal country.

Your family story is very interesting. See you know what I am talking about. You know it, like I do, you even more than me.
I was basically a one issue voter when it comes to girls. That is, is this girl my soulmate or not? That is it. Is it the woman that destiny has brought be to. All the other stuff including the stuff on American women does not matter. I write a lot to wake guys up. So many of my friends back home in the USA married the girl next door who was not a good match for them. Their wives are on them all the time then leave them.
I tell guys to consider people from all over the world, regardless of their nationality. I did. My friends that have traveled the world and fallen in love with women from other countries have interesting lives. Why marry the girl next door just because she is American.
I am maybe too hard – I admit and need to go back and revise some of my posts/comments. If you see anything that should be deleted because it is too crazy let me know. I sometimes go off in the wrong direction.
Fantasy movies are great, I just watched the entire series of Lost with my wife in one month. That is like 100 hours of movies in a month.
So we should learn from our parents that love is not about money or health but about love and staying with them for better for worse. Maybe our parents were not that bad after all. 🙂
You come from such a humble background and you are very educated and nice, I sincerely hope you have a real prince. American guys, at least the ones I know, just dream of someone like you.
About the Amish. They are amazing. I have a lot of respect for their hard work.
Like I said my friend (I think his picture was on the site, take a look) is really into the Amish. He lived with them and studied them and made himself an expert. He is one of the leading experts on the Amish in the world. He did it not for money but for the interest in the Amish. He lives in Poland in Krakow and learned Polish for the love of the language. A guy like that does not think in terms of can I make money, more like, I do it because this is my life. He writes books on the Amish because he loves it. Even though he made a lot of sacrifices and did not have a real job, ever. But he is highly ethical, bright and a humble guy.
Bottom line do what you love and date who you love, and run from the idea that money is important.

Btw… so if not the Nordic countries… which country do you think should rank as the highest?

Is your friend American? I wonder how well he speaks Polish. The Amish are fascinating indeed. I hope they are faring well. I did hear though lately that the government is trying to impose some taxes on them, that doesn’t sound so good.

I do think that you were too harsh on American women and women in general.

If you want the girl to be the soul mate first and foremost, then why do you focus so much on the girl’s looks and insist on her to be “submissive”. That has nothing to do with her being someone’s soul mate. Just like a guy’s income has nothing to do with his ability to be a soul mate. To ask a woman to be submissive… That is very offensive to me as a woman. If this is someone you prefer, that’s fine, but women should be allowed not to be submissive if they feel like it. I can submit to a man at some points, but not the whole time, I want to keep my autonomy and self respect as an individual. Also, what does the man do for a submissive woman.. is he dominant, protective in return? You have not stated anything about that. If you want to specialize and separate the gender roles, you should do that not just for the women, but also for men. So if the woman must be submissive and traditionally “feminine” (femininity is of course broader than what the traditional paradigm states), then the man must also be traditional – the provider. It is either / or. If the man is not the provider and the protector (including in the financial sense), then we will have gender equality without gender specialization.

American men are generally very nice. I think they make a good match for women in our region.

Maybe American women are not bothered by staying married because they feel that they can easily get another man? Since there appears to be a surplus of men, or maybe I’m wrong. Or is it maybe the fact that they feel better on their own and the marriage is too much of a hassle for them.. is it true though that it is predominantly women that file for the divorce…? I find it hard to believe that this is only because they want to get half of the couple’s property. It’s too much of a hassle to break up a home.

As to me finding a prince.. sure, I’m up for that. I’m already exploring among the nicest princes of the world (Nordic men).

My friend is American and he has lived in Eastern Europe almost ten years. He has an EU citizenship like me because his family came from Eastern Europe. He is fluent in Polish and people on the street when they are talking to him do not know he is foreign by is language skills. Maybe after talking to him for a while they might detect and accent, because he is from the south in the USA and even in English he has an accent, a southern accent but, his ortografia and pronunciation is near perfect. He even took an exam by the Polish government.
I speak Polish but I have more of an accent and even though I create a Polish language site polishgrammar.com I make mistakes from time to time. But I am improving.
The funy thing is when we are at a milk bar or on the street sometimes we speak Polish and when we are dressed in our cargo shorts and American t-shirts people know we are foreigners. People give use strange looks to see two foreigners speaking Polish very well on the street. Imagine if that was the case in your country. I mean Polish has a complex case system and most foreigners just say some phrases, but to be talking slaggy Polish on the street instead of English our native language is funny. He is much better than I.
I believe every woman is beautiful. Really if you take a look at one, corpulent or skinny old or young you can see their humanity and beauty. However, there are some socail trends I stay away from like divorce, and feminism and materialism. If I write, I write agaist these. It is not agaist Americans, I am one and love America, just a promiscuous culture that wants its cake and wants to eat it to. I do not recommend guys go for these girls. Things like denial and patience and asceticism and ascetic practices are good for the soul.
Look at the Amish, they have a nice community based on ideals. Maybe before marriage they rumspringa (lay next to each other fully clothed) but this is innocent and idealistic.
I am not saying society should be this way or that, rather, if you are a guy making a choice to marry a girl, make sure it is about love, not these other things like money or power.
Submissive is good. No stress, no hastles. I am humble, I hope and serve my family, why would I not want someone to serve the family with the same commitment and have the same ideal.
I think submisiveness and non materialism is a dream girl.
Just like self confidence and authencity in men might be a dream guy for girls.
The Nordic world has very peaceful nice people up there. 🙂

Mark – I’ve read your blog entry with pleasure. Yet you do not notice changes that has become SO obvious here, changes that took place within last 20 years. People change as well, oh they do. When I was a kid, we lived in a communist state. We had one car (and it was rare in these days), we played in the backyard with other kids, even the food was scarce and…life was so simple and good. At least for us, kids.

NOW people hunt for money. Everyone wants money, money, money. Girls DO want the money. 20-somethin guys earning more than some Americans, showing their wealth, etc. This style. This way – if you have no money, you are “worse” category.

Believe me, I ve lived here for almost 40 years and what I am abserving now is SO sad. We do not even talk to each other as we used to. 20 years ago families met for 2 days, having drinks, eating, talking funny stuff, plans for the kids, their universities. Now? We meet twice a year, Easter and Christmas. That’s all. The very first question I hear is: WHAT is your work now. Do they pay well? Is it ok with your work? And so on.

People here stopped to fell. They work. My parents talk about my work, my job, my money. Well, ok, I made many mistakes, I am still poor being almost 40, but what the hell! I long for the days we talked about going to a forest to pick some mushroom, about some AUgust holiday plans, about someone win a lottery. Now? People stopped to accept themselves for being human beings. They count how many square meters of apartment you have. What car you drive.

Believe me, life in Poland (and probably in Easter/Centra; Europe) changed a LOT. A lot.

You are right. The world is changing and it changes in increments and it is hard to notice somethings. But I am aware that everyone is hunting for money. In America people are not thinking about creating value but hunting for money. The same is in Eastern Europe to some extent. However, this hyper consumptive mentality has not fully taken over.
William Shakespeare said, ‘I have wealth in my friend’.
Further for me the richest thing I could do in life is raise a happy child. It is the best job in the world. However, there is a cost. The cost is no chasing money you could be judged by others. My reply, I do not care. The world could go to heck in a hand basket but I will live the way I believe.
Hats off to you if you life this way.
The other good news if if you life in an authentic way long enough, sometimes you will find your hobby is a source of income.
I still think most guys and girls who hunt for money are nothing more than corporate serfs. Being a corporate serf, like a director or something is a poor way to boast your ego. If you are going to hunt for money, play to win and be a own something that is adding something to the world. Then you will make more money than you can handle and you can give some to charity.
My opinion the most important job in the world is raising a happy child or more.

That’s really funny about t-shirts and speaking Polish. 🙂

If an American lives in the EU for a certain number of years, isn’t he eligible for an EU passport? Or if he marries an EU national?

It’s nice to see Americans come live here, not just Eastern Europeans moving to America.

Citizenship is based on right of blood or Jus sanguinis. If you have European blood you can with work get citizenship. I had four grandparents from Eastern Europe so I could get a green card and applied for citizenship from there.
If you are American you get nothing. You get deported after 3 months. Americans are no different than any other country. You can not live or work in the EU without a visa. I know people that got deported.
I am lucky my family is from Poland. I got a green cards now an citizenship because I wrote a case for one.
If you get married to an EU citizen you can apply for a visa that can lead to citizenship in many but not all EU countries. Some countries require money in a bank account to prove you can pay for yourself each day you live there.
Many Americans dream of living in low cost, high culture Eastern Europe. America is a great place to be a careerist or at least it was in the 80s and 90s. To be a careerist you will sacrifice your life for a house and a flat, and pay homage to your boss by working night and weekends. I understand why Americans come and live to Eastern Europe.

I do not care (and never have), just that it’s too annoying.

I already alluded to that materialistic trend… which is very unhealthy. Of course, we do talk about all the nice things and many people do have a good lifestyle, but there is a tendency for some people to be too flashy. I think Eastern Europe has taken a lot from the materialistic values of the West, such as seen in the tv shows and magazines, but hasn’t taken from the deeply rooted humanistic tradition of the West. Here in the Baltics we do have Protestant values, but those are often overrun by short term consumerism and status seeking.

In the West the average people are more mellow and more at ease with themselves. It gives a calming effect when you go there. It seems that the relationships are more stable in the West too. The men seem more faithful. Here the relationships are pretty fragile.

Maybe with this crisis people will abandon consumerism..

I will always be 100% faithful. I think it always depends on the individual. I also think you see the west in a different way than I do. Just like I see the east with with a different perspective. Maybe I live in Poland which is a different culture unto itself. Many people here are very catholic and in my experience talking to my students, people are very loyal to their partners. Not even a question. But Poland has its own set of problems.
Your right, Americans are very laid back and more relaxed with themselves because they did not have communism and the post communist experience.
I think no matter where you are you can live like you are in Hawaii. I know it is very cliche, but in 2010 you do not need to leave your home to make your surroundings a calm, relaxed paradise.
Money has nothing to do with this of course.
So let me ask you this, what would be your ideal life? Where, doing what? I ask myself this a lot and have an answer but I am curious about you first.

I’ve noticed this trend that some Americans want to move to Europe. I’ve even heard Americans who work here say that they were happy to get away from New York. Maybe they don’t like the fast pace there, even though I find it less stressful in the States (except for the consumerist lifestyle).

Actually, I’m pretty content the way I am. But my dream is to move to Sweden and work in the area I enjoy, making me able to come back home whenever I want as it is very close. I want to live in a peaceful, egalitarian society and devote myself to it. Generally to have a well rounded but peaceful life.

About women and money, women can be just as good with money as men. Women are on average better middle level managers(based on polls in the United States) and maybe investor (considering the economics crisis )as men, because women are more risk adverse when it comes to money.
Along the same lines of thinking, women can focus on career and build their own financial security, just as men.
I think it is good that there are women financial gurus and many of the talking heads on MSNBC money or CNN money are women.
However, the key for women is to be aware that financial security is not real. At anytime you can lose your job. Yes many of my friends in the United Kingdom told me they were great workers, IT and marketing managers etc. and they lost their job in a day when corporate did some down sizing.
Further, I hear that many people are losing their homes to foreclosures.
Others have retirement savings dwindled as their plans are based on irrational exuberance of expected return.
Money is a very poor thing to bank on (pun intended).
Find a guy who will love you so when your looks go, he does not.
If you marry for love and job, the man will marry you for love and looks. When your looks go, he will cash you in for a younger model.
Find a guy that when he has no money or health you love him just like you did when you meet him.
I live in Moscow and many people like the story of the Faust by Goethe sell their soul.
Do this if you want and find “love and money”. But remember the story of the Faust, the man lost his soul for this type of thinking.
This is why, if I marry (I hope to), I will go for love.

Another thing, the women search for a provider for their children theory is bunk. Why?
If you really want a provider search for a guy who will teach their kids languages, wisdom, chess, music because he is fully of love and patience.
Think of all the great minds,from pianists to chess players to writers of the past that grew up with nothing.
Think of all the spoiled preppy 90210 depressed kids that have nothing in their brains.
The provider theory is just something that buzzes around the Internet but not true if you really look at the issue.
A loving man will be a better father than a reptilian brained man.
Women need to go for loving men not men that have money or a good job.

I think the issue here is people are confusing the desire for a guy with a job with money. I think is my fault to some extent. When a girls says she wants a guy that will work, it does not mean money necessarily, maybe she is talking about a character trait. Meaning she does not want a guy who is slothful. Sloth or laziness is one of the seven deadly sins and can bring people’s spirits down. Similarly many guys do not go for corpulent girls because this is often a sign of a character weakness, that is sloth and gluttony.
Therefore, Eowym, I think I understand what you are saying. You do not care about money, rather the guys character?
That I understand.

Well, I tried to explain a couple of times already, but I’ll try again (I’m playing a bit of a devil’s advocate here).

I do care about money (mostly about my own) – money is not evil.

That said, there are things that I care about much more in a man, such as character and looks. If I have to choose, I will always go for a poor, handsome and caring guy instead of a rich ugly guy. Yet, I think it is important for a man to work. We all do. Besides, some men expect the women to be feminine, submissive. In those cases, the man has to be the man – the provider. That is a healthy dynamic in the traditional sense. In these circumstances the man has the right to be above the woman.

I personally prefer the other model – where both are equal. Both work and both are friendshipy for each other, no one is above the other. And I prefer the sensitive guy, not the alpha male – I would rather have a poor guy who is supportive emotionally and helpful with kids than some alpha high earner who is dominant towards me and who is just a Sunday dad.

It just seemed that the paradigm which you seemed to be defending, the one where the woman better be submissive, automatically implies that the guy is the breadwinner, thus, must have a job.

Guys don’t like corpulent girls not because it demonstrates laziness but because they are not aesthetically appealing (the waist is not lean). The main reason is because most guys aren’t friendshipually attracted to corpulent girls. I know many guys who support thin, beautiful girls who are lazy (and sometimes y). Their laziness does not deter these guys from loving them – because they are friendshipually, physically attracted to these women. It’s as simple as that – it has very little to do with health, work ethic or morality in general.

Alpha men
So many things here. Why do you see a traditional provider guy the alpha guys? I think the idea is if a guy is confident and strong in his own right he can be a supportive emotional and not care about definitions.
For example, one of my friends Marc, who was an super macho meaty bouncer guy, cool player, is now married and Mr. Mom.
Women and work
I think both people working is a bad idea unless it is economically totally needed to put food on the table. Why? Because did you know a child’s IQ is formed from 0 to 2 years old? Their emotional personality largely formed up to the age 12. So if you are serving your boss, being career woman, your children pay the price for the rest of their lives.
The most important job in their world is raising a happy child.
Why if the woman is submissive does the man have to be a traditional provider guy. No way. I have seem hippie couples where the woman is submissive and it works.
The best is a submissive woman who loves her family and says career is for fools. For the guys part, good moral character and sincere and puts the family first also. What about money? Maybe I am naive or idealistic, but I think if you live in a modest way and work hard, you can find a way.

Men find character attractive
Girls like skinny guys, but in my experience the ones that are more moderate and skinny are nicer because they know how to moderate themselves and have other interests besides food. Fat girls have some problem that they need to work out in most cases. There is no way I would go out with a lazy skinny girl. Not a chance. But if a girl was moral and hard working, I would have considered this girls. Men are not as shallow as you think. Lucky for us there are plenty of skinny girls that are hardworking etc.
A skinny girl that is a b_tch, not a chance with me or any of my friends.

A good looking girl often gets average once you get to know her and a not good looking girls often gets beautiful once you get to know her. I worked with some good looking girls, there was no rush or wow. I believe the divide between good looking and not good looking is mostly in woman’s minds and imagination. Men look deeper than you think.

Money wealth the noble pursuit of income
Money is not bad. Money is energy. It is not bad in itself. I am an unrepentant capitalist. I think if actually we agree more than you think. I think working hard and participating in a capitalist economy is one of the ways people do good on earth.
I even have a site about this.
political-economy.com
I give away a free e-book I created, written by Adam Smith.
The way the world works is when we are all doing our own thing and using our own God given talents in a positive way. For some people this means economics. Money is not bad at all. Creating something of value is the rewarded by money. So it helps people see what society is demanding and helps people serve society. I think capitalism is a very good thing. Capitalism and wealth creation are friendshipy topics.

However, when it comes to love then I do not mix the two.
I just know love and money do not mix, like oil and water. If you put the idea of money even a little in your relationship, its not love.
Jesus did not talk about money as part of his message of love did he?

Yes, I’ve also marveled at how smart some of those MSCNBC ladies are (many of them are young too). 🙂 Sometimes I listen to them and just wonder how they know all that stuff. There must be some trend of smart, young women going around. 🙂

Yes, women are good managers because they have smaller egos and they are more egalitarian in their nature, and women handle money well because they are less prone to risk taking. This is a well known biological fact. We all see what happens when there is no gender balance in financial and political dealings, the world today is an example of that.

And, yes, money is transient, but what matters is not money, but wealth. You don’t have to keep money in a bank, you can buy real estate or gold or other metals. You can invest in your education or health. Or above all, children. Those are the real investments… all that is gold does not glitter.
A real capitalist is not someone who has a lot of cash, or a great job title, or who’s a market g_mbler. The real (smart) capitalist is the saver and the investor.

Women and money
Those NSCNMSC ladies and CNN money ladies are great. They are simply very verbal and grew up in that environment. I grew up in a wealthy area and when I got up in the morning as a kid I would not check the sports page but the stock quotes. In fact I had a summer job where I worked 7 days a week from 11 pm to 8 am at 17 years old. I do not even know if that was legal. But I took my money and bought stock. I was buying stock way before that also with money I made working, but that was when I really became an investor. If you are into it when you are young it is like speaking a language.
If you want to know about investing, I could talk your ear off. I was a stock broker, worked on Wall Street etc. Great times. So they are bright and verbal but mostly just exposed to the financial world. They are smart women.
Women are good managers but I do not know if they have less ego. I have meet many ruthless women managers. I think it is because they are more detailed oriented. I think they could be great leaders but most have babies before they climb the corporate ladder. At least the wise women do.

But, yea, that’s what I meant – it’s not about money, I don’t care where he works, outside the home or inside, as long as he works.

So it is about ethics not money. If someone is sincere in their efforts who cares if they make a little or a lot. I like people who try to use their God given talents, rather than bury them in the ground.
If you are rich or smart or anything, it is not because you did anything great, rather is it because God lent you those things and will ask latter how did you use those things to help others.

You need money to make money is a myth
About being a real capitalist. Yes an investor is a capitalist, but I would say even better than that, is someone who takes direct ownership over the capitalist process.
That is when you invest in stocks or land you are usually not managing the business but an indirect owner. A better capitalist owns and runs the process and has an influence over it.
I think one of the biggest myths of the world is you need money to make money. Wrong.
You need capital. This can be intellectual capital or financial capital. If you are one who uses financial capital there is more risk and barriers to entry. If you can use your own God given intellectual capital, you have low barriers to entry as and product differentiation as what you have can create something unique.
How to make money
Harry Potter author , Bill Gates, musicians, actors, get paid big because they use intellectual capital. This is why the alpha man provider idea is really cliche and low level. Show me a geek from MIT and I will show you a potential inventor. Show me a creative guy that works in starbucks with dreadlocks and there is a potetial entreupreeur if he is using his free time right.
Show me an alpha guy who is a business director and tough guy, that is a boring guy in a suit that will at most have a house a car and a vacation. Which is not all that bad, just not really a capitalist.
Your brain is the only capital you need to get rich.

I’m not psyched about these definitions of alpha, beta, etc., I don’t really believe in them. I just used it them to simplify the point. And a provider is not necessarily an alpha, an alpha is just a strong, charismatic man with power or someone who has it easy with women.

It is not ok if the woman is submissive, because it is not fair. It should be either / or for balance, either the traditional set up, or the equal. Otherwise it’s not fair. The guy must reciprocate by being stronger, or else have equality. Which is the way I prefer, no one is submissive and neither is above. The natural friendshipual dynamic works by itself between a man and a woman who are attracted to each other so there will be no problems.

Of course, I know that all men are not shallow. Men are different. There are some very deep, considerate and interesting guys that value the woman for who she is inside. And looks matter for both friendshipes, btw.

Oh, cool that you have a political/economic site. Yes, I agree that capitalism is good because it is based on the Protestant work ethic and it allows people to improve themselves. But there are many different types of capitalisms. Well, you seem libertarian, and even though I find many of the libertarian principles attractive, I believe in the usefulness of the welfare state. But the wealth must be produced first so almost everyone must work. However, I believe that a welfare state can only exist in small homogeneous societies which have all the necessary cultural prerequisites for that. For America it is probably more natural to be libertarian. The American people are used to the laissez faire tradition, it is part of their national character, and what is happening now is probably unusual for them. And with the bail out of the financial sector, the debate about capitalism becomes problematic.

Interesting article about the stock market crash, btw. There is a lot of talk about the potential crash and the further aggravation of the economy. People like Peter Schiff and Ron Paul have interesting opinions about this, as well as Gerald Celente. You have laid it out very nicely in the article.

No, love and money don’t mix. I wasn’t talking about love, but family. Love in itself is purely romantic and has nothing to do with money, only the person. I don’t know that many people who marry for money. I never could.

Yea, I love how those MSNBC ladies talk so passionately in their beautiful, flawless American accents. 🙂 Yea, you grew up being very well acquainted with the stock market, for the people here it wasn’t like that. People were very naive and not educated about finances. Yes, I’m kinda interested in that.

I understand what you mean about God given talents, I used to be puzzled about why Americans who got rich used the phrase “I have to give back”, and when I realized how they perceive God, then it all fell into place.

Well, money makes money in cases of getting interest from bank deposits and such. And, yes, it is true about the direct ownership (even though you have to reach that first) and, of course, a good brain is the best capital.

I do not know for the world, but I know for me it is a lot easier having a girl who does not hassle me or who is on me all the time. I think a lot of women want to change and fix their guy or they have a point to prove. I do not want to spend 24 hours a day with someone who is not easy going. I love easy going. I spend 24 hours a day with my wife 7 days a week. We work at home and are never apart. If we need something at the store we go together. I this has been going on for years. If she was not really laid back, it would be hard.
However, men are real jerks and try to play power games because they are not secure with themselves. That is why I agree with you that these alpha beta etc are not great working models for relationships.
If I were a girl I would go for the most easy going, humble guy. These are the guys that are most secure as they have nothing to prove. They could be hardworking creative, but one who loves a girl for who she is, and the girl does not have to dressed up or look good, but the guy is relaxed and laughing and easy going but also good morals and loyal. In terms of looks I think everyone has a sense of beauty, they just need to bring it out. If I were a girl I would not go for power guys, or alpha men they impress me as immature. I think geeks and sweet guys are more interesting for girls.
Therefore, I guess I live submissive on both sides and two givers. If you have a giver and a taker it will not work. Two takers it will not work.
Stocks
I think stocks are the most fun you can have with your clothes on. I love stocks and the market and have traded all my life. But nothing beats intellectual capital for making money as you agree.
I am not hard core libertarian. However, I believe like Adam Smith believed that the differences between people are very small and one person succeed and another does not because education or attitude. You can do anything you put your mind to.
I think social state really destroys people. I think in free societies the poor are helped. If you have a social state, the poor are hurt.
I basically believe in the ideals of the enlightenment. Why do you need a social state? I do not understand? You could have a negative income tax and get ride of government. privatize social security and have a balanced budget amendment. Its clear. Government would almost be gone. You could have some military but not like it exists today which is a special interests.
Why should I work hard and pay EU and US taxes, which I have to and get nothing from it? In a sense I will work hard for my neighbors wife (via taxes). I work hard so my neighbors wife can get a bailout tax credit stimulus and remodel her bathroom.
If you can understand MSNBC your English is super. I can see it in your writing. I certainly hope you use your English. You can write. You, if you use your talents will be a rich lady.
About God, I think many people in American see God as the giver of all gifts. Any thing I have is only on loan. When I hear people say’ I did it all myself’, I laugh, you do not do anything yourself, it is all given to you so you can help those around you. All these egotistical self-made people. I prefer humble self-made people who only give credit to others not to themselves. So I guess that is American culture a little.
If you want to know anything about stocks or investing or money, I do not know if I have any answers, but feel free to write me at the contact on my site if you want to exchange ideas. Stocks has been a life long hobby, along with chess.

Oh, so that’s what you meant by submissive, that’s not really what I had thought of. Of course, you want your partner to be laid back and easy to be around. It has to be easy and happen naturally, otherwise there is no point.

I like the idea of a social state because I’m tired of the social contrast we have developed here. After all the drastic and quick changes I’m really longing for something stable and secure. We all grew up pretty much equal but now we see that the differences are too big (and it’s not because some people are lazier but because the system is not fair).. It seems unnatural and unfair to me. Here it’s not like in the West where there is fairness, where the rules are the same for everyone and people are protected. We have a regressive tax system on the labor, making it impossible to create a normal, solid middle class. Local businesses are discriminated against via taxes. Women are not helped so the birthrates are low.

I think the way they did it in Sweden and Finland is excellent, because they have combined a capitalistic approach with security (it really breaks my heart that we cannot replicate it). And it pays off because the society is healthier, and that is cheaper in the long run. Social contrast only creates expenses in the long run. The businesses do pay high taxes but they take advantage of the good infrastructure and the healthy, well educated labor. Businesses still have a lot of freedom, but they also have responsibility and they get a good environment to operate in.

There is a good book about it The Spirit Level. Why More Equal Societies Almost Always Do Better by Richard Wilkinson. Anglos will not like it, but it makes a lot of good points. 🙂

I would personally benefit from a libertarian system because I’m relatively stronger than others, so, like in Ayn Rand’s novel, I would reap in rewards from my work quite successfully. I only need government for the sustaining of the infrastructure which I use (streets and transport) and some security (and not that much even because I live in a safe place). I pay in taxes much more than what I get or will get in return. To think that I could keep all the money I pay in taxes, is breathtaking. I would have a lot more money and still not need any public services. But what I need is a sense or an acknowledgment that if anything happens, there will be a safety net.

I am now more educated, healthier and younger than many others, and even more driven, so I have advantages. But what happens if that changes, or if I have a child? Then I will need solidarity from others. I will give to others now, so I can get their assistance at another time. I believe that in civilized societies the strong must defend the weak. We must help women (or men) with small children or elders. But, of course, not healthy individuals who are lazy.

I guess I understand your point about the neighbor’s wife, but how would she be getting a “bailout tax credit stmulus”? It is the bankers that got the bailout, and, no, it isn’t fair or right. No body should be bailed out at the expense of a more frugal person, it creates a moral hazard. This is not about the welfare state.

So what do you think will happen when the stock market crashes… what repercussions will it have on the real economy?

Well, I speak pretty well too, with an American accent. 🙂 I really love the English language.

Being submissive is more about humility. About not being right. About saying your are sorry with all sincerity and looking at your own faults not your partners. It is about being ‘whatever’ about many things. But also about being easy-going and laid back. No stress. If you are with your husband or wife do you really want to be bickering all the time and competing. I think many partners are in subtle competition with each other subconsciously. This comes from a lack of awareness and ego. Submissive is, submitting your ego. If I women is telling her man, I am not cooking. This is not submissive. If a man does not say he is sorry, this is not submissive. Both have to submit to the will of each other and to God’s wisdom found in the holy books of their religion. Like Thomas Kempis wrote on love…
“It bears every hardship as though it were nothing, and renders
all bitterness sweet and acceptable”
The stock and real estate market
If the market falls this will prolong the disequilibrium in the real sector. This was the basic theory of business cycles by the Austrian economists. That financial market and sector shocks create real market disequilibrium. 2015 could be when the world is fully out of this. Maybe sooner, but I think things will not get back to normal for a while.
It was all fake. It is all credit. Think about how expensive apartments are in your country. Does this make sense? It was all bid up on credit and fake money. Monopoly money.
If the average person makes 800 Euro a month, this is what the price per meter in the city where you live should be to rent ad buy. Is it? I think things are way over priced.
I think people are getting paid to push paper and we are all pressing each others pants and inflated asset prices irrationally away from value because of credit.
Away from all the sensational talk we are basically in disequilibrium because there was an over inflation of credit, which was simply transfer to the government sector and now we have a downward rigidity of prices of assets. But that I think you already know.
The market could wait for ten years for real wages to catch up and asset prices fall to their proper level, because of rigidity. But I guess I do not know, anything could happen.
The good news is that people are always innovating and something new could come alone.

Social state and financial jealously
Sure I see VIPs in their big cars and the difference between rich and poor growing. I know what you are saying as I feel the same sometimes. The VIPs park their cars on the sidewalks and no respect for others. But so what. It is all relative. Just because some guy has more money than he knows what to do with does not affect me unless I am a jealous person. The poor guy can be helped with a negative income tax. He gets money instead of pays it and the rich can be taxes more.
Social stratification only matters if you are jealous about money. I do not care. I have been rich and poor and happiness comes from within.
But the size of government should be cut to a fraction. The poor guy today in Europe and America is not poor compared to the way are parents live in communism and the great depression or grandparents under feudalism. No way. The poor today have cars and TVs and cell phones and I see only corpulent kids on the street, not starving.
If people start to believe that they are not victims of their countries economies and start to use creativity to innovate then they can free themselves from poverty. But I think the government can help poor people, no problem. We are a rich enough world for this to happen. But I am not waiting around for anyone to rescue my economic situation and I think it sets a very bad precedent if someone things the government will help their life in any way. A social state is not a good idea. If you want something in live you have to get it for yourself. No one will knock on your door and hand you money every week.
I believe in the enlightenment and that there is very little difference in intelligence and skill of people. It is all a matter of education and changing their thinking.
If you had perfect information for example you could be a millionaire by the end of the year. That is a fact. The issue is ignorance. We all have it. So the role in life is to enlighten ourselves.
Look I have had bleeding in the brain. I suffer a horrible life of pain most of the time. But am I going to just hope the government or anyone will take care of this. It is not going to happen. Am I going to sit around and feel sorry for myself? I would rather be poor than with heath problems. I will live, I just live in pain right now. I think someday I will get better as it is slowly healing.
My point is money in life means very little for happiness. Love means everything.
There are some people who live in the court yard behind me. I call it the Huckleberry Fin house. They get government money because they are poor. They wake me up on Sunday morning because they are drunk all night and then sit around all day. I use to teach people on government assistance and all they did was make excuses. I do not think too much government is good for anyone.
Why a social state makes people poor
The USA had a social state at its start in the 1600s it was part of the contract of the colonists had. In two years people were starving. The original document stated people did not want to ‘work for their neighbors wife.’ That is where I got the quote. The next year the governor of the colony in Plymouth Mass. ripped up the contract and eliminated the social state utopia. There was so much food and produce they had the first thanksgiving. That is the real story.

I think if anyone wants to make money in today’s economy it is easier than you think. The main thing is you need to create something of value. Even if it takes years to do. The sell it. The world has changed, no longer do you need to be part of some inner circle to make money, rather simply have some courage and imagination.

I’m sorry that you have been in pain, I hope you are healed soon.

Of course, I know about the market situation and that real estate is still overpriced, because I have to analyze it daily at my work. The situation here is a bit tricky though because the capital is always coming from the outside too, so the local’s salaries don’t really matter.

Well, we’ll just have to agree to disagree because we are in totally opposing ideological camps.

And, no, I’m not jealous about their cars! 🙂 The last thing I care about is a person’s car. I have a house on the beach myself. The ultra rich are favored in my country, while the labor is overtaxed, that is the problem. I couldn’t care less about what car they drive and how many bimbo wives they have. I am worried about the social fabric, about the tremendous loss in human capital. I only have a problem with the fact that there is too much inequality and the tax system is unfair, which makes it impossible to create a middle class and drives the productive people out of the country. I myself do not want to pay taxes and contribute to an unfair system where the richest are protected and everyone else is oppressed and overtaxed. This is why I’m planning to move to Sweden, pay my taxes there and contribute to that equal and humane society. I don’t wanna be robbed in broad daylight by bankers and the government that is subjected to them. We have a problematic Gini index and the inequality has gotten way too high for me to tolerate it and feel comfortable.

And about the global economy… I don’t think there will be a recovery. The credit boom was artificial and there is no returning to anything like that. Until the real economy is completely restructured, there will be no stabilization, just a continuing shrinking of the economy. The jobs are not coming back. And I don’t think this is a normal cycle.

I agree. Good analysis. Jobs are coming back but at a much lower level then people are willing to accept. Therefore, they are not coming back. Credit is now stacked up in government hands and this extends the adjustment to equilibrium. There will be no great recovery until some innovation changes come that brings the next boom. But this could be many years.
People in the USA are pulling out their retirement money early to pay for their over valued mortage based on credit.

I agree completely about how the world has changed. This is the good news. Maybe the economy will become less institutionalized. Sure, if you have a product, it is great because you can access pretty much any market and you can work by yourself. This is great.

I do not like institutionalized economics and choose to be out of the game. Not just for theoretical reasons, like companies are greedy or anything, they are sure. But for the reason I spend a good part of my life working for the ‘great companies of America’. And it was very boring. There was no rush in working for PWC or Merrill Lynch et al. nights and weekends. Life is too short and precious. I tell people, do not get smart too late.

Interesting. Well, I guess you can work for those big companies for some time, make some money, learn some skills, put smth on your resume. Not bad. But it’s also nice to have the freedom to run something small by yourself.

When I was in America recently it didn’t even look that bad. The consumption was very high. Americans have more social security than Eastern Europeans (not as much as Western Europeans though). I heard that there is a slight increase in private sector jobs.. but there’s really nowhere for the jobs to come from. The companies that they bailed out are not likely to renew their competitiveness. I think ppl will just have to learn to consume less… and hopefully there is no really bad inflation.

Please do not take offense anyone working away out there as I know there are bills to pay. That being said:
I could care less about my resume. I do not care about my CV either. 🙂 I care very little about big wigs or movers and shakers. Corporate world is largely fake and people trying to impress each other for bonuses they do not deserve.
I think there were very little skills which I learned in corporate American other than maybe excel.
I did a lot of hiring and I would see someone has years of experience at several companies with some title, it did nothing for me. I would like to know they are real people and have intelligence. Showing up for work at a big company with a title does not get me excited, unless I was looking for a yes man or a cog in the wheel.
The only lesson working for companies teach you maybe is that it is better to work on your own.
Now if I had to pay the bills I would work at McDonalds as all work in noble. I worked many gazillion hours on the loading docks and as a cook even after I graduated top of my class and have a masters. I did not care. All work is noble. But I think working for a corporation is good only for when you are planning to do your own thing and need time to think and pay the bills. Resume, not worth anything I think.

America is very rich. I was at Disney world this spring and many rich people. No one in America is suffering too much. The crisis is not like Eastern Europe during communist times or even now. America is so rich that even a crisis will not evaporate, all the wealth into a black hole. What will happen is people will gradually start cutting back and some real asset prices like houses will continue to fall. Other prices like food might increase. Basically in a relative sense people will feel poorer, but in an absolute sense there is still plenty of money flowing around the world.

Maybe there will be total collapse, but I think it will be more like, people can not pay bills, send kids to school and not have a lot to retire on. Americas is very foofy and does not know real crisis like Eastern Europeans did. But I like America and it is a great place to live.

Yea, it is very affluent. That’s why when I see how wealthy it is now, it’s hard to believe what some people are saying about the unemployment and the food stamps. I think Americans will just have to cut back, they have a huge reserve, even they cut their wealth by a half, they will still be well off.

Yea, America is really cool.
But how long have you lived in Poland and don’t you want to go back?

I have lived in Poland about seven years. Since I have dual citizenship and speak English and now Polish, I do not see it as a choice of living here or there. Rather there is no incentive to go back when things are 200% to 300% more expensive in the USA. I have the same lifestyle I had in Boston but for a fraction of the price. I live in the center of Europe and travel around which I like.
However, I do travel back to see my family, I went to Disney in the spring for example.
My brother lived in London for 20 something years and went back and forth like that also. Now he lives in Florida because of the weather and like sailing. He made a custom make ship.
For me I prefer sunnier weather so sometimes I think I moving somewhere in the USA sunny and warm but has fours seasons like NC but you will not get the same cultural effect I have living in the old town in Krakow. Further I would have to buy a car (I know Eastern Europeans like having cars as a prestige thing, but me, a life long driver and formmer New Yorker, not having a car is the next level). I would have to pay more for shopping at whole foods supermarket (I do not like to cheap out on something like food, here I buy farm fresh local Polish food). I would have to pay more for most everything except imported goods.
So it is an economic decision. I have a great lifestyle here, working from home and spending it with my family. Traveling Europe for vacations and going home to the USA when I want.
My friend Erik for example, will go back to the States for 3 month vacations, its great when it is dark in Europe. I not as long.
I think eventually if I make a lot of money I will buy a place in the USA and in Europe. But since my folks have houses in nice locations like Florida and New England for visits its OK the way it is now.
I do not feel like I am living in a foreign country totally as my family was from here and I still have some relatives here.
Most important I believe in God and am an universalist and not a nationalist. The whole world is God’s creation and we are all part of it equally as chilrdren of God.

If I work at home I spend most of my day in a home office that looks the same as I would have in the USA. I have high-speed Internet, all wooden new furniture or at least IKEA, printer, flat screen TV with 1000 American and European stations. Nothing is different except my life cost less here. Therefore, I save money and can travel more.
If I lived in the USA I would be paying more for everything and traveling less. I would rather save money and visit the States on vacation.
If I needed to get a Matrix job, that is plug into corporate American and slave away, I guess in the USA I would make more. But there is a big cost as time is stuff that life is made of.
At the end of your life God will ask you how was the party? You will say what party. I would rather not be plugged into the Matrix but just visit it from time to time.
I love America, but economics is a major governing factor. The American economy is not like it used to be. It is not like my father’s generation where people had the same job for 20 years and got home at 4pm in the afternoon and the wife stayed at home. If you are an American worker you have to fight to a smaller piece of the pie and play musical chairs with your job.
You have to work nights and weekends for your 3% raise and your wife will be working and your children will be latch key kids unless you are upper middle class.

Great that you’re from New York, it’s such a great place (don’t know if you mean the state or the city though). Well, we have cars not just for prestige, but mostly for convenience. But I was surprised to see how easily one can get by without a car in NYC, that is if you live in the city. But the public transport is convenient anyway. I just wish I could go back there for one more minute. 🙂

But in Mid West you can’t live without a car. Because the Americans have to take the car even to a Walmart which is just 300 meters away. 🙂

It’s refreshing to see an American having moved to Eastern Europe. Usually it’s the other way around. It should be a good deal for you (especially if you can afford regular transatlantic trips). If you want sunny, you can easily go to Southern Europe for a vacation, it’s not that expensive.

Whole foods is fantastic. But it is a bit pricey. Yea, the farmer’s market here is so cheap.

I have the same goal as you. I want to get a place in Scandinavia and keep my Latvian place too, so I can go back and forth (it’s close).

So you got the citizenship because you had Polish relatives, not because you had lived there for 7 years?

Yea… even though clothes and appliances are less expensive in the States, life in general is more expensive. Hm, it’s hard to say.

I think that there is a lot more competition in the States than here in Europe. It’s more demanding. It’s just really competitive because there are so many things people “need”. I guess it depends on what kind of a lifestyle you choose. Also, my American friend told me she would hardly get any maternity leave if she had a baby. I wonder how they do it.

In the USA be prepared to shell out 40,000 dollars a year for higher education per child. For a masters that will be a 1/4 million dollars. In Poland it is free. Medical care is free, here too if I need something special I go got a private clinic. Its not that bad, even though I am pretty much a libertarian. I think if I pay taxes, which I do in both countries, at least I get something for it in Europe. In the USA I guess we get Iraq.
Cost of food I created an excel spreadsheet and compared apples to apples across a market basket of goods.. The USA is 300% more expensive. This was based on official US department of agriculture statistics on various food items.
Education, medicine, food are often people’s biggest outlays.
Public transport is 1/3 the price. 100 usd for a trolley pass in Boston (about) and only 30 dollars in Krakow a month.
Movie tickets in the stats are 15 dollars in Poland 5 dollars.
Local supply and demand determine price not cost. If people make less things cost less. This is true for all local economic goods. Imported goods do not obey this law since they related to global supply and demand. Therefore, imported goods are the same price.
So often a person from Eastern Europe will go to the States and buy a computer and say ah life is cheap here. What a myth. If you compare your real expenditures on a daily basis, the USA is double.
I paid about 2000 USD for my flat in Boston the same on in Krakow now costs me 350 USD.
Cable in the USA is about 70 USD a month, in Krakow, it is about 20 USD a month.
Internet in the USA is about 50 USD a month for high speed, in Krakow, I pay 15 USD a month.
I could go on. So I would say it is 200% more expensive to live but really 300% is you have kids.
Also there is no vacation or maternity leave in the USA to speak of compared to the Europe.
Crime, do not even get me going. I lived in Philly and worked in NYC and Boston and there is crime big time. In Krakow, I walk around at night safe.
See it is all about lifestyle do not start thinking about brand names like the USA or Paris. Think about day to day living. If I live in Krakow I save so much money I live a nice upper middle class life and travel to Paris and the mediterranean. If I lived in Boston I would be working like a b_star_d for the same life and less quality. But I would have the brand name of Boston.
If you want to be a careerist and work for 20 years for the great corporations of America you will get richer in the USA. But if you are an entrepreneur, this is the case.
I love not having a car. Maybe the reason is I love to walk and to the mall it is a nice walk though the forest where I live. I live in the old town and walk everywhere. The money I save on car, I take vacations. Flying off to some exotic place or by train to some local place. I live in the old town so the airport is easy to get to. What would I do get in my car to drive it to the shop? I prefer to save money and fly and stay thin by walking. But cars are fun if you have extra cashflow or need it.
Live in your Baltic home and Sweden or example is a great life. Why not? Europe is an interesting place. These northern countries are very nice. Beautiful forests and cities and the Baltic in the summer has nice beaches. Go on vacations in the sun in the winter.
If you have someone that makes the moon appear in the sky and the stars shine a night you will be all set.
Its all about lifestyle if you ask me.

About housing. I am undecided if I should live in the City and pay crazy prices for a flat but have an interesting lifestyle or move to the country and build a big old American wooden home nice a cozy.
Everyday I have another idea.

Btw.. I have a question. How does one become upper middle class in America? Do they have to go to Yale?

Yea, it’s great out here, I also live in the old town.. and the nature is very close. It’s really beautiful. Safe too.. I travel a lot.

See? And you were dissing the welfare state. 🙂 It’s much better. Here we don’t have it entirely though, like in Scandinavia. The prices are really low in Poland.. lower than in the Baltics.

Ok, computers and clothing are much cheaper in the States.. but rent, etc, isn’t. Education is crazily expensive. Not all of those diplomas will be useful given the current situation.

One thing I don’t understand though… it seems that there is so much wealth in the States.. yet there are the high mortgages, etc. But when I look at the median salaries, they’re not even that high. Like, 2000-3000$ per month after taxes. Of course, there’s a wide range.. but still… that’s not even that much if you subtract all the mandatory expenses.
My American friend was really rich and made enough money to buy an apartment in a couple of years. But she went to Harvard and said she had to work like crazy for a couple of years.

Having a small maternity leave is the scariest. I guess that’s why so many American women pick guys who can provide. Such as in the Mid West, there are still quite a few families where the wife can stay at home.

Yes your are right after taxes and etc the net salaries are like 2,000 to 3,000 a month.
In the USA you have State tax like 7%, sales tax like (not a salary deduction) 7%, local taxes, self employment taxes of 16%, federal taxes of lets say 33% then other deductions from your paycheck. So not matter what you make per year, often you are pulling in only 2,000 to 3,000 a month.
This will have to cover rent, but also food, car (everyone in the USA needs one), saving for retirement, children’s education, medical etc.
How do Americans do this? Credit. This is why we have a crisis. It is OK now. No assets are evaporating but if this lasts for a few more years, then people will really downsizes their lives.
The only reason people have houses and cars is easy credit. It is all credit. Me I would someday like to build a house or buy a flat in cash (hmm we will see), but in the USA few people do that, hey make payments to the bank for their house and their cars. That means a couple of months of missed payments and they are out. 1 million people will lose their homes to the bank this year. So you see America is a nation of debt and credit. Fly now and pay later.
However, I think almost all American women can stay home with their children, which I think they should. If you have a little baby, you will see that little one needs its mama. It needs its Mama’s so much that career is secondary. Why do American women not stay home? I think they do not want to downsize their lifestyle. You could live in a small flat and have 1 car and save, but Americans do not want to do that. I think double income allows people do live in big houses and have two cars. When you have a little baby that needs you, I think it is very cold to go to work, unless it is a matter of survival of course.
So America is all credit.
Your friend that went to Harvard is part of the elite of the elite.
There are other factors, like crime. Crime in the USA is different than Europe. First you have guns, and murder and many freaks ( s__ offenders) in general. I do not know why, but in Poland there are much less people doing freaky things. Maybe it is the close family units or the religion but the crime statistics are low compared to the USA. I think every person here who has trouble in their lives are helped by their family and live at home in Poland. In the USA, this is not the case.
So everything is not about money when it comes to a place to live. It is about lifestyle.
I still think the USA is a lot of fun and is a great country but it is not the center of the world like it used to be. Why? With free movement of labor and capital the world is now becoming decentralized. Money is like water, it flows around the world pretty fast. You do not have the Soviet Union holding part of the world back.
I am curious where are your favorite places to travel?
What type of business do you do?
If you could start a business what would it be?

What is expensive in the Baltic land where you are? What are the prices like, maybe I am cheap guy and buy things at Auchen (the French Walmart) here in Krakow and that is why.
Also computers and things are not always cheaper in the USA. I have seen sales at Auchen for netbooks and laptops about 30% cheaper than the same thing at Bestbuy in the USA. However, it depends on the currency rate. It is sometimes only temporary but you can save big time if you are watchful. Plus everything here is quoted after VAT but in the USA prices are quoted before sales tax.
If you shop on allegro.pl there are many things really cheap. Polish people I say are very clever and a little bit greedy and if there is a away to get it cheaper they do. They get many things from China directly and cut out the middleman. I was looking at iphones and they were much cheaper in the Poland on Allegro.pl than in the USA at Bestbuy. I do not know if that is the case anymore.
A house, if I build it I will build it only from the best materials but like I said, the wood might come from the Ukrainian mountains and with Ukrainian workers (legal) rather than a local building company. I will design it myself instead paying thousands for a design etc. A penny saved is a penny earned.

One more thing in Eastern Europe you make things work for less. For example, in the USA I would have just spent 1000 dollars or whatever on Adobe hotshop. Here I use all the open source software I can. I use paint.net and GIMP. It is basically the same and it is free. I have a lot of the art hand drawn than hotshopping it. It looks better. There are a million other ways if you are clever you can avoid paying the big bucks, I would not think twice about paying if I was in the USA. You learn to do with less if you are making less and sometimes it comes out better.
In Eastern Europe there is a wealth of talent and creativity that I would not be able to interact with if I lived in the USA.
The only real drawback is the weather, but I jest it makes us more interesting people.

I know this theory that the arms race and the bipolar global arrangement kept the world stable and that the current problems in the US are just the second stage of the collapse of the Soviet Union. And you know what that means? It only means that there were very many geopolitical scientists who were not right about preaching the “end of history”, etc. This means that it’s better to think with your own head. Like you said the money and people started moving along and things changed. It is like when Heraclitus said that “everything is in a flux”. Nothing is static (capital, political systems, etc). And a multipolar world will be interesting.

Yea, the US is great and fun, but all the social contrast causes that freakiness (as I said).

Latvia is relatively expensive given the median salaries (the median income is not fixated though because the grey economy is big, I can’t blame the people though in the current situation). To rent an ok 2 room apartment in the center costs about 450-500USD. Clothing and cosmetics costs twice as much as in Germany (because of the middlemen). Lunch outside can cost around 10USD. Cup of coffee around 3 bucks. Generally stuff is more expensive than in Poland, for instance, one kilo of sugar costs 1EUR in Riga, same as in Stockholm, while only 0.53EUR in Warsaw. The Poles have flooded our market with cheap stuff. It is only ok for people like myself who have an income that is close to the Western level.

But there are many great things here.. you don’t need a lot of stuff that they buy in America. It is easy to save if you want. There is loads of culture and a lot of it is for free. Some good sports too. It’s safe.. the food is good. And it’s a paradise for men – the women are the best. So for me life is perfect, the only thing that is lacking are men like in the West. 🙂

I like the weather here though, the winter and autumn.. lots of snow. 🙂

I have a 70 meter flat in the old town of Krakow and I pay 316 dollars a month. But has 5.5 meter ceilings and a loft is no problem. It is high western standard all modern with a balcony into a green court yard. Its very nice where I live. It is all parks and green, yet in the old town. I guess in the USA in Boston this would be over 2,000 USD now that I think of it. Your flat is a little more but not that much more. In the USA you would pay three times that. I mean you could move to the USA and live in South Carolina or Mississippi, if that is what you wan to do but it is not like Riga in terms of culture and general cool factor. Riga has a high cool factor, if you know it or not.
Our ancestors 1,500 years ago settled in Eastern Europe for a reason, and that was because it is a mix of naturalistic beauty and economics.
Poland can be as expensive as you want it to be or as cheap as you want it to be. I noticed that people who have money in Poland spend more and people with less find ways to spend less. For example, I buy food in from the local farmers but also in foofy large whole food type shops when I have more in cash.
I also have family that has a farm so I get a store of potatoes and apples etc to last me all year, as well as thinks like from the forest like honey and berries etc. I get milk and eggs and ladyen from the farm and so I guess I am lucky.
I think Eastern Europe is great. It is one of the best places to live in the world.
About the winters, I would love to have a nice wooden house in the country, to keep me warm all winter or at least a greenhouse. There are many ways you can over come the darkness of the north, and we are in very northern countries. Think how few people live this high up, we are part of the small part of the world’s population, but like I said the darkness makes us interesting or at least introspective.
If I can I will plan a long vacation this winter somewhere warm, I do not know where yet.
About Heraclitus I agree. China was poor now it is getting rich, Eastern Europe was a dark dingy place and now it is for a story book place to live. The world changes.
About a guy, wow, I know scores of American guys that would love to meet a girl who can quote Greek philosophy and want to have a family, likes to travel to exotic places and knows how to fend for her self in the world. 🙂

Dude, Southern States do have their charm, but I would not move there. 🙂 I’ve been there, it’s interesting out there. But I’m very different from that lifestyle. I know what you mean though. Riga is very cultured and cosmopolitan. Lots of history and beautiful architecture. There is hardly a place I would exchange it for (only Stokholm, because the men are so cordial there). So, if I move to Stokholm, most things will be about twice as expensive than what I have now. I would simply have to make more money and still end up saving much less than what I do no. But being around the cordial men would compensate for that. 🙂

You sound even more “Eastern European” than I! 🙂 I love getting stuff from the farm (and used to spend summers down on the farm) but I from what you write you sound much less urban than I. 🙂 I’m so used to the restaurants. But we can easily get good food from the farm any time if we feel like treating ourselves. The woods are close too, it’s awesome.

Yea, there are many great things about the life here.. indeed. In fact, it’s one of the best places to live in the world. Green, peaceful, some water.. nice beaches. The only thing I don’t like is that there is no welfare state. And no Western type of men (I guess, our own men here are friendshipy in a slightly different way).

I think for someone like you who has a Western income, this is indeed a good place if you can get over the cultural differences (which some Western folks can’t). Even though some North Americans I spoke to recently said they didn’t want to leave. 🙂

I really love the North and the darkness. I actually love it a little bit colder than Latvia (by a couple of degrees). I have spent some time in Norway and if you think this is dark, then you haven’t seen dark and cold. 🙂 Iceland, for instance, is constant, strong wind. But, yea, you are right that it’s relatively high up North. Yes, darkness is what makes us introspective and what makes for the special traits in the culture. And I like it that it’s not crowded.

For warmer, maybe try Croatia? Most people here go further down south in January though. Like, Turkey and Egypt.

Well, I’m exactly that type of a woman you are describing. 🙂 Haha, that makes me happy.

The dark weather in the north makes people think about life and introspective and even Gothic, I mean how Gothic can you been laying on the beach in the sun. However, if you have kids than they will be inside all day for 10 months. I guess it makes them do other things like read and play chess and dream. But the darkness has a beauty all of its own and I welcome it.
Moving to Stockholm is not a bad idea. If you are not married, and with no kids why not. I believe life is an adventure. If you like the guys up there even better. I mean I moved to Eastern Europe across the Atlantic, not just the small lake called the Baltic and I do not regret it at all. Sweden is a rich country and very interesting, if for nothing else the endless forests and rivers.
I prefer city life to country life but it cost more. I step outside my door in Krakow and I am never bored. Even something like church, in the countryside there is one small church and a country priest. In Krakow there are like 100 churches in many different languages and have different messages.
I am not a consumer but I love going to the mall and even just browsing. There is always something new, whether at the Body shop,bookstores or some French cheese or clothes, there is always something that is changing. I like it and try not to get pulled into it but it is more interesting than just sitting and watching the grass grow in the countryside. So I go back and forth.
If I put my capitalist hat on I think you need about 2 million dollars in the bank to be free. 1 million invested in the stock market for the long-term that you can forget about. And 1 million in fixed income which you can live off the interest. With that interest you can travel or start companies or give it to charity, whatever. I would spend my time starting companies. I think one of the best things you can do for people is start a company. They have honest work and pay for their lives and you create something of value for others. Its a win-win. That is why I think capitalism is actually the best form of social state.

Yes, I am myself Gothic, and that genre stems from Northern Europe for a good reason.

Nope, the kids are not inside 10 months of the year. The way I grew up, we were outside a lot during the winters (seems they were more stable back then but maybe it’s just the perception of childhood). As kids we were out with our father a lot, even in snow and relatively cold weather. Some of my best childhood memories are from when my sister and our dad went to a little nearby forest and rode a sledge down the hill. We also went skiing and skating. Boys played hockey on the pond. We were out a lot.

But I know what you mean, I know that in Stokholm life subsides a bit during winter. But there is a lot of fun stuff that you can do outside here and over there too.

Yea, I love it when all these small shops spring up. Here there is a big rotation. Yea, you cannot have welfare without people setting up companies.

I do not know why governments forget that small businesses are the largest employer of any country. I also think small business is were innovation comes from and growth. Large dinosaurs companies, find ways out of paying taxes and do not really innovate and are not as efficient. I think if country wants a welfare state, they need to promote small business and allow normal people to set up businesses basically tax free. And if this happen, I think you will find you do not need a welfare state.
I mean Sweden is great and all, but they have a very small population, did not have WWII (they profited from it by selling strategic metals) they did not have communism, so they are rich inspite of their welfare state. And Sweden is nice if you want a house, a car and education. But you do not get crazy innovation like that occurs in the USA in Boston for example with biomedical research or other things. I think welfare state is OK it is not horrible, even though as you pointed out I am a libertarian. But I still think you need an engine to drive the economy.
I have some Gothic pictures on my website, lots of cool looking Goths in Krakow. I think every guy I know things Gothic is attractive at some level. I think if you are even somewhat Gothic and educated and hard working with intellectual curiosity, you should have guys like Brad Pitt and George, Clooney knocking at your door.
claritaslux.com/girls/european-gothic-girls/
/girls/medieval-girls/
I should take more street pictures as there are so many interesting people here.

Mark,
I know there is many comments in here about American women. Meaning many being materialistic, overweight, and mouthy. Yada, yada yada and its true. Maybe they have become this way because of the way they are treated by men. Seems like many guys here are after friendship and they like to flash their money and brag about themselves. I know there is a lot of humble good guys here in the US but also seems many guys promoting their own ego. Its just a point a discussion!

It is a very good point. Not all American women are materialistic, in fact many are peace and love girls.
In contrast many American men are players. They like to use their money to get women and then leave them.
I think men that are perpetual bachelor players are the same as material girls. They are mildly irritating.
Why? It is about ego.
Everything you have in life is on loan from you from God. God will ask you what you did with your money and resources lent to you in this life.
I met this lawyer who said. ‘Everything I have is because of my own hard work and intelligence.’ What a fool.
I asked him ‘ OK what if you were born in Africa, and you were five years old, and someone hit you over the head with a rock, and then you were dead?’
The lawyer was born in the USA given a family to grow up in and a brain to use and a lot of lucky.
Many people are ego maniacs. Many people with titles like director or something or big cars and think they are important. They are not. They are zero, nobody, unless they have a good heart and treat people with gentleness and humility.
So guys that are players and use their money are and deserve American girls who are their equivalents.
But if you are a guy looking for love and do not care for money, why not be open to a place like finding a Russian princess or Ukrainian or Polish or Latin American girl? These girls often will not care about money and treat you right in marriage.
When it comes to women and money. Make sure you make the right choice with the former and you will not have to worry about the latter.

Overgeneralizations. I am Romanian but lived in the usa since I was 6. I am 28. I turned out much less materialistic than my cousins in Romania. It might be a surprise to you, but if a guy should pick a girl based on your standards, they would pick me not my cousin in Romania. Please stop overgeneralizing. People think that they can make sense of their world by generalizing and more often than not this lands you into trouble. Maybe you are still swimming in your wonderful first impressions of non-American countries, i.e. the physical package of the girls, so then you extrapolate this generalization into other parts of the girls. I.e. blinded by love. Trust me, sir, you are highly mistaken. If you want to find a good woman, guys, there is no short cut. You will have to do your own critical thinking on each and every girl you consider. I think the most important thing to consider is how much of a conscience she has. The duality of selfishness vs altruism which applies to any culture, and is seen across the full spectrum in all cultures. You may find this in a Christian girl (but not all Christian girls), or a hippie girl who cares about the planet and starving people(but not all hippie girls), and you can easily find it even in a girl who is misguidedly trying to climb the corporate ladder, just because that is what her parents taught her she must do to be a “good girl.” But by the same token that I feel it is misguided for a girl to climb the corporate ladder, I feel it applies equally to men. Corporations are evil. Strive to live your life with voluntary simplicity, not with the mentality of trying to conquer and destroy the world corporate-style.

Your overgeneralizations are so painful to me.

Trust me when I say this, Romanian women want men with money even more than American women do. The only reason they seem easier to please is because their standards are lower. But bring them into the United States where they see how lavishly and decadently people live, and watch their money demands rise alongside their immediate environment. More than anything, Romanian girls want to keep up with the Joneses. They are taught to be traditional and not buck the trend, but in this teaching there is one great fault — the trend is materialistic. Unless a person has a very strong center (religion is not enough to do this unless it comes with true spirituality, oh how rare) their environment will blow them to and fro, and watch them get real superficial real quick.

Why do you think so many Romanian people leave their families in Romania to go work in other countries? Because money is important to them. If family was more important than money, then they would be happy to remain living on the farm in harmony with nature and mud on their boots, but no instead of taking the spiritual high road the husbands and the wives leave each other and their kids behind, for money. One of my relatives family, the man stayed in Spain working abroad for three years, without visiting his wife, or seeing his daughter grow up. And why is the wife ok with this? I guess they’re both ok being apart from each other…. what kind of a relationship is that? I have countless upon countless examples, from knowing countless romanian people in my life, and most of them are not the dreamy spiritual kind of people you describe. Please you are deluding yourself and others. I know better, and countless Romanian people know better.
My cousin got her own apartment from my uncle to stay in at college in Romania, and what was her verdict, “it’s ok, it doesn’t have a hallway at the front door, but it will do for now” Have fun in greedy, American-capitalist wannable, social-climbing Romania, guys! If you’re foolish enough to believe it, you deserve what you get! Again, I am a 28 year old Romanian girl, married, 5’8″ 130lbs. I swore off the Romanian-pressured materialistic lifestyle instilled in me from birth, after years of growing up in America feeling I’m “not good enough” because my parents didn’t have enough money. Stop fooling men on this website, and stop generalizing women. There are PLENTY of good women in the United States, but you just don’t want to point them out because 3/4th of America has a weight problem, and by God, that would not make an attractive subject of a website geared for American men, now would it? Yeah, trust me I can see through the male bs. AGain, PLENTY of good women in America, just stop looking for the in bars and other such nasty places. Go to church, and look for the old fashioned country girls.

Many good women in America, you need to look in the right places. Buy in my personal experience, the proportion of non materialistic women are higher in Europe because of the different focus. Europe is more like Ancient Greece, intellectual thinking and America is more like Ancient Rome practical doing.

Ok, yes to an extent on the Greece vs Rome analogy, but not quite, because you see every European wants the goodlife as much as an American, it’s just they’ve not lost all their benefits there as quickly as Americans. Union, etc still exist. Haven’t you seen them revolt when the governments are trying to put austerity measures on them. They know they’re being swindled. The only difference between Europe and America is they are more politically aware in Europe. America is really really really really x 10 dumbed down, sports and American Idol. On the other hand, somehow I feel like the average person has a bit more of a heart here in the USA. Just my opinion, haven’t you noticed how un-open Romanians are… if you were to rate Romanians on the big 5 personality they’d be major on the un-open and neurotic scales. Much more laid back here in the states. When I’m around Romanian people I often feel like walking on pins and needles to not say the wrong thing… give it a rest peoople.

What if your childhood wasn’t fantastic? What stories do you tell her then?

I do not know if my life was anything but toil, suffering and lament (J.S. Bach), but I have choosen to take up arms against my sea of troubles (Shakepere). If you childhood was not a Brady Bunch life, then this means you an interesting person. You will still have fairy-tales, maybe more on par with Lestat or from Anne Rice or ‘Night Watch’ by Sergei Lukyanenko – rich in imagination and feeling.
I used to escape my suffering in my imagination.

I suppose you can joke around – I have suffered too, but emotionally – my self-esteem was wiped out. But I tend to talk a lot of nonsense, which people seem to like. It’s not true that men don’t like a girl for laughs, is it? I can’t imagine not spending time with someone who can’t make me laugh. Anne Rice is classic, but vampires are run-of-the-mill stuff nowadays.

Celeste, I am very sorry for all the troubles in your life. I would never joke about another persons hardships. Just know that every person I know, goes though similar things in life. Maybe not exactly the same as yours or mine, but most people are borderline depressed at least at the start of their adulthood. What happens is when you are in your 20s and out on your own, you are faced with life.
Job is horrible, relationships are sour and fake and money is not too great. Also people have healthy and parent problems.
Then on top of this you also have existential anxiety about life and what it is about. This might be subconscious, or you may be aware of it. But to work your way though this it is very hard.
This is a ‘fundamental doubt’.
So know this is the human experience. So I understand and I am sorry you have had to go through these troubles.

Sorry I didn’t read all the comments but I completely agree with Eowyn. My mother wouldn’t let me marry a man without money, without stable background. No matter how I love the guy, if he can’t earn money, and my job wouldn’t pay enough I would really really consider if I want a baby from him. What would happen to the kids? As a will be mother I would put my child on first place and would provide everything to them. If I can’t then I wouldn’t give birth, no matter how it hurts since I want to give the best’s best to them. And since I want babies I would try to move away from a guy like that, who is unable to help create a stable family.

Remember money and wealth are relative and means nothing in a relationship. It is more about the character of the person. If the guy is a bum, cheater and a lair that is one thing, however, if the man is honest but poor and a good man, what does money matter?
Explain to my why so many people base relationships on status and money? This is not a job but someone you will share your life with. The children will be poor if the man is rich and spends all his time at work. The children will have a better life is the man spends more time with the family than he does making money.

I didn’t say he has to be rich just that he should work, earn money, he can be a simple worker. Just the bills for a 4 person family is around 90.000 HUF a month and my job payed 75.000 a month. Puff let’s happily starve together because he doesn’t earn money?
I have a bf for 7 and half year now as a 21 year old girl I think that must mean something. My bf doesn’t earn too much, he is just like the average neighbor. But he sincerely works and helps out his family (mother, sister)with money, since the father left them and not willing to give them anything, just debt….
That’s what I call a man, knows what’s his role and never whine about it, in return he will get what he deserves from me: cooking, in the future raising the kids, clean, and ofc help out with financials, any type of support.
In Middle-Eastern-Europe you can’t make a living with only one of the parents/couples working.
A guy who earns money and even spending that little, always begging money from his gf and partying will be dumped. (Really happened more correctly will happen; this behaviour= the pink fog is disappearing from the girls eyes.

I hear you, but I sense you are putting the cart before the horse. A guy in love will naturally rise to the occasion be a prince and champion if he is in love. And further, even though I am a traditional guy, maybe too much so, but I still think people think too much about money.
I can not imagine dating someone from the start who takes and takes. He has to wow you. But latter if he is sick or unemployed, it does not matter because you are both in love and are a team. Love is never 50-50 only business is this.

To be honest I hate money to the core but I can’t live without it since I bump into it every single week when I have to pay this bill than that bill, and a bill again… again…life would be easier without it.
I just said the man should be employed, in my country being poor means you don’t have money to buy food and that’s not an option for me. Ofc there are cases when the other party can’t work but most of the time this is not the case, more: work stinks I don’t wanna do that. And a guy in love would do anything, well I thought so but when I look at my friends and their bfs I realise that’s not the case…
Don’t misunderstand I’m not money orientated, more family, but for a family you need money, money and money, just calculate how much it costs that your child is studying.
And by the way when a girl takes it natural that a guy is paying think of it as a tradition, this is how it used to be in the past. If the guy wouldn’t pay when he ask the girl for a date to a restaurant even a boy would think he has no manners (and girls with good heart usually order little and very cheap). After some time this paying thing won’t matter since in marriage the “cash register” is joint so the couple will decide who will pay this and that equally. But at the beggining of dating as I said always the man pays, otherwise the first impression will be horrible of him.

This is another question I have thought about for a while. What is the connection between love and money. Society gives everyone mixed signals. There is a lot of talk about the man must be the ‘hunter’ or the ‘provider’.

I do not like these traditional models. Nor do I like it when women quality relationships, well he has to have a job. This next turns to he has to have a good job, this turns to the American girl way of thinking, he has to make six figures, oh he is a banker … and the progression continues. Why not drop the fear and trust in life and God?

The financial crisis has taught many people, titles, jobs and money is a false god. Love is the only capital worth anything in this world.

However, we all add up to 100% and we all have different gifts in life. Some people are listeners and are compassionate. They give kindness and love and help to others without others knowing it.
I have seen relationships where one person is really the moral support and another person the financial support. The financial support person sometimes will yell ‘look at how much I do for us’.
This is the mark of an ego out of control.
We each contribute in our own way to a relationship. Try not to think in terms of an accounting balance sheet.
Think more in terms of a wheel or life. We all have something to add and contribute.
Even the Bible tells us this that some have the gift of healing and some have the gift of tongues we all have different things to bring to this life.
How do you know that the holy spirit is not incarnate in some homeless man on the street, and that person is to teach you a lesson of compassion and sacrifice?
How do you know that your relationship is not to teach about detachment from money?

I mean in Europe or America, there are few to none real impoverished people.

Now I am a giver. I only would be in a relationship with a person who is a giver. That is just me. But I can not imagine giving means money. Giving is a way you are. So maybe the problem with your last boyfriend is not that you were with someone who was poor, but rather he was a taker and you are a giver. This is a radically different way of looking at it than just a money equation.

“Insist on raising capital of love, of kindness, of understanding, of peace.
Wealth will come if we seek first the Kingdom of God – the rest will be given”.
Mother Teresa of Calcutta

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