Money and worth are not connected
When world economists are using their Nobel powered brains to solve the economic woes, I will use my economic background to give you some analysis on the current state of the economics of relationships in general and dating an American.
The business of America is businessCalvin Coolidge
Do you want to date an American girl? Well, you better have perceived economic value to back it up. OK, this is a cultural generalization (and it is not true for all, as we are all individuals), but this overemphasis on the material world is once aspect of my culture I am not pleased with.
Perhaps it started with the end of the Gold Standard when value of money was disconnected from a commodity. Sound money was replaced with Fiat money. This is a metaphor for my culture.
In this post, I want to make you aware of the problem of money and dating in America and give an alternative to dating a materialistic American woman.
Wait a minute before the mail starts rolling in, well, of course, all people are individuals so this is not universally true. There are many sincere non-materialistic American girls.
However, I do not think I am going out on a limb here, when I say American guys would agree that, American girls place an inordinate emphasis on economics when considering a mate or even a date. Think about your own dating experience and tell me if this is true? The reason is because American society has changed from something that was initially pure, but is now about keeping up with the Jones. And this has made many people lonely. The consequence is love and dating all messed up. Let me explain.
Puritans influence on modern American girls and dating
To understand what is going on with the American dating culture, let’s start from the beginning. I mean the real beginning, like the 1640s in New England when the Puritans were trying to build a new world based on the ideals of God and community. This I think was great, the idea of making the city of God on earth by living in a community with pure intentions is something to be admired.
What went wrong and how does this relate to hyper consumptive American women spinning their wheels in their cars driving from mall to mall to find the best sales at Ann Taylor or the Gap?
- Work as a virtue led t0 prosperity
- America’s accumulation of excess wealth plus post modern thinking severed the connection between virtue and daily life.
- Dating in the USA is now about fulfilling a list of criteria, many social economically based, rather than, deep true one and only desperate love where nothing else in the world matters other than being together.
Well the Puritans placed a great empathize on work. Work was even something that was seen as a virtue. I disagree, by the way. In my mind work is nice, but Jesus never said blessed are the hard working. Many Americans have this ‘God helps those who help themselves’ attitude. Work and even capitalism (I am an unrepentant capitalist) is was a virtue. However, I personally think there are much more important ideals. What about compassion, charity, forgiveness, loyalty, understanding and love? A good work ethic, if it is a virtue, is a secondary one or a worldly one, not up there with love, compassion and forgiveness.
Let’s see how the Puritan work ethic turned into something else.
Money as Fruit of One’s Labor
Anyway, the seeds were planted. If work was seen as a good thing and the fruits of labor (money – a store of value) was a sign that you are a productive person. This meant to work hard and to be industrious became a core American value. The predestination believing Puritans were always looking for signs, you know. But for these guys work and virtue not money was what mattered.
Fast forward to the 21st century and somehow the work ethic became less important than the fruit. This is what got twisted in American culture. In dating the relationship between work and money became more remote. A girl does not want a guy who is working and striving in a noble but low paying field or jostling windmills, but rather a guy that is driving a SUV.
What does matter to American girls in the dating scene?
Therefore, primitive external manifestations of power are more important than a man who has the courage of this convictions. In fact, in American dating culture ideals is not seen any more as jostling windmills even. High morals like simply waiting for intimacy for marriage is something that even needs psyccordialherapy to cure, all that repression and all.
While looking for that great love for post modern western women often money and titles talk and BS walks. Symbolism over substance is the rule for the American dating scene. Maybe guys are equally guilty, but from my male perspective, I think American dating has degenerated to the bottom largely because American women, who should be the guardians of culture have jettison traditional values for some form of strange mixture of feminism, hyper consumptive yardstick for measuring up a man’s worth.
Money and titles matter more than ideals and character. This is American girl dating. I am and American expat and this is the way I see it, from afar. The American dating scene became something like this. American girls look for guys with money. If you are over 30 and not rich or a movie star good luck.
In fact, there are American psychologist (who are mostly libs) will even write articles about females are looking for good hunters. What a crock of horse hockey.
Why is this all wrong and money and love do not mix?
Love , women and money do not mix. However, Western society will tell you the contrary. This good hunter theory is over played. It mixes truth with fuzzy logic. Yes, women instinctively care about a provider, but we are not only animals. We are spiritual beings, strands of energy between heaven and earth and once you have fulfilled a little of Maslow’s base in this pyramid of hierarchy of needs, as humans we can move on and aspire for greater things.
Also consider that poor and rich are relative. I have even herd that poor people in America have running water or even cars. When I went to visit my family in Ukraine they did have either. This is Europe, mind you. They were simple humble faithful people. So do not give me any nonsense that money is something to consider in a relationship. Americans girls are spoiled and focus on your wealth creation ability. If you want real honest of goodness love, something that ill transform your life and life your soul, money, career should be given 0% value in the love equation.
However, somehow some (not all) Americans got stuck in chasing the bottom part of Maslow’s triangle, that is money etc. a little more than the rest of the world does.
If you doubt me, travel though Europe and you will see the difference, France in August is empty, everyone is laying on the beach. Try to get hold of a European on the weekends of after working hours, good luck. Americans are obsessive about career and work and have put an over emphasis on monetary value and especially when it comes to dating and relationships. American women who are dragons (often working in the marketing departments for large companies as VPs) subconsciously use the same measure for sizing up clients and co-workers as they do for dating, relationships and love. They take career and money too far and wind up in the 30s hoping for that last chance guy. I do not want to be the solution to some American girls choice of career over being domestic.
Listen up girls, the opportunity cost of waiting for a mate while you are juggling your career is too high. You will swindle yourself out of your own life. Find your man and deprogram yourself. Live as an Expat in a poor country for a few years and do charity there and live like a native. Then come back to the USA and find a man that moves your soul rather is successful by society’s standards.
Dating an American woman, be prepared for the interview
If you date an Eastern European, Latin America or Asia your topics of conversation will mostly be about literature, culture, movies maybe and even philosophy and religious believes as dating continues. She will not care about your muscles or the kind of car you drive.
In contrast, in Latin America and Eastern Europe I have seen geeky, good morals, normal American guys dating run way model looking girls who dream of being a stay at home mother. Most Eastern European girls tell me with pride that they are domestic and want to take care of their man. See my interview with a girl here: what do women want? The world is not American culture.
American women without a CFA can calculate your present value.
In stark contrast, lets say you meet an American woman from OKCupid or Match.com, which are not bad online dating services. Just be prepared for ‘what do you do for work’ and basically a background check into your level of education, where you live etc. For example, I live in Beacon Hill in Boston so that was seen as +2 points as opposed to when I lived in Brooklyn, NY when that was seen as -1. Basically American girls will size you up and calculate a present value based on the time value discounted value of a series future income or cash flow. Somehow even American girls who could not pass level 1 of the CFA have an incredible ability to size you up when it comes to net present value. Further, these same girls will fail when it comes to home economics.
In fact with the high break up rate in American marriages, why not just find someone you dislike and give them your house and half your money and spare yourself of the emotional anguish of a break up that will affect your children.
So where does that leave the American guy when it comes to love and romance in America?
Read my lips, the world is full of opportunities. Why do you feel you need to marry the girl next door? Why not expand your horizons and consider a girl from the other side of the world to be by your side and live happily ever after?
11 thoughts on “The Economics of Dating American Women”
Hello again Mark, thank you for beating this drum over and over. I am still striving in America, lonely as ever and about to take on a second job. I can’t deny anything you write about because it is my daily experience. I am very good looking and have many artistic talents – this matters little in comparison to how much I earn/what I do for a living. I am painfully aware of this.
The thought has occurred to me though – am I, you, your readers somehow defunct in some area?? In a metaphysical sense – do we experience all of these things because we continually focus on them?? Perhaps there is some limiting, subconscious belief that is lodged deep within us.
I do observe happy, affectionate couples here – many of them – my own two brothers are happily married for example. Yet I am never the happy recipient of this experience. My relationship experiences mirror your described experiences. This goes back as far as the first grade.
I resonate more with the European way of living – I would rather have harmonious fellowship with fellow beings (tribe) and take time to smell the roses, build a beautiful life/family with the woman of my dreams and shower her and them with love.
I turn 37 in December and the lease on my apartment ends in February. If all is as you describe I don’t see why I would ever want to come back here. I experimented with the expat life last year by spending a month in Argentina with an eye on perhaps staying indefinitely. I was disillusioned however and decided to return here last November. There was too much of the chaotic, polluted, noisy city life in Buenos Aires for my taste – I also felt very isolated and alone in the world. This is my main fear in striking out again – painful isolation and disillusionment.
By the way, are your language learning materials available now? I would be interested in the Ukranian course.
Drew, the easy stuff first. The language material is still waiting on the artist. He hand draws everything so it takes time. One image could take a week. But its getting there.
I liked Buenos Aires but you are right it can be noisy and polluted and many girls are nice there, but you know, you have to find the right one. And until you do nothing will work. I did not meet my wife until I was 40 so you have 3 years on me.
Basically until you find the one, life is hard. This is a universal idea. You could be a macho man or a movie stars or a pauper, but we all want to find our princess or prince. Love makes the world go around. It is such a deep desire in us that if we do not have it we will feel alone and depressed. This is nature trying to motivate us and tell us our time is limited. If we did not feel this way then people would not find their other halves perhaps.
My single life was a blur compared to my family life where everyday is joy.
Look I was living in Boston, doing well and many American girls all around, but if you do not have your one and only, the world is a lonely place.
Living as an expat is an interesting experience. The first year is surreal and more like a vacation or what the heck am I doing here, and I crazy. The second to fourth year you go back and forth between, most of the time good, but sometimes ready to leave. About the five year it feels like home sweet home.
However, I choose a place where my grandparents came from and I had somewhat of a connection to. I am not totally living in somewhere foreign. However, at this juncture I could live almost anywhere and be fine with it.
I guess what my father once told me is true. When you believe in God, then you are never away from home really. I see it this way. The cosmos is large but here we are all God’s children and I believe God watches over us all and time and distance has no meaning.
You complain about American women’s unreasonable standards for men, but what about women starving themselves and going under the knife to meet the “unreasonable” standards “most” American men hold them to? Instead of criticizing a gender in a certain society, maybe we should evaluate both genders situation as a whole. Including morals and how we make or judgments about people,as a people. I think the real problem in America is that both genders size each other up more like a cut of meat, Something which could potentially bring them profit or a temporary satisfaction of carnal nature. We have become a society that views fellow human beings as a disposable resource, to be used for all they are worth and thrown aside when leeched of all “value”. Ive heard both the materialistic and “whatever this is called” approach over and over. Both, to me, not only sound extreme but feed into each other and seem to add fuel and justification towards this messed up value system we now have. Every response has its stimulus, if we don’t change how we are treating each other we can never expect a different response from our opposing gender. Healing, the large collective mind of a nation(s) certainly isn’t easy and has to happen gradually on an individual level but if you don’t cut out the disease it will spread.
– an American girl dating one of those “foreign girl only” types. -sigh-
Melissa, women should not alter their bodies, this is one of the big points I make here. Be as natural as possible and any accents should be with natural lipstick or nice clothes or good creams for your face and a healthy diet. A girl with a healthy body from clean living, long-natural hair with nice jeans and a t-shirt will always be eons above a girl who unnaturally alters her looks.
It is OK to make yourself attractive but you are right you do not have to go to extremes.
Similarly men in America tend to put an inordinate emphasis on their jobs and careers. In the Words of Michael Douglas (Gordan Gekko) in Wall Street 2 ‘I used to thing money was the most valuable things in life. I was wrong, it is time.’ Being a player and getting rich will not improve your chances of finding your soul mate nor will it earn you a place in heaven. If this is the case why do American men not take time off from their careers to find their one and only true love, even if it means traveling the world?
Therefore, in the USA in many cases (mostly the cities on either coast), we have an over exaggerated exchange of looks for money in the dating scene.
If you are an American guy you know where I am coming from. You feel girls put an over emphasis on earnings and the present value of your future steams of income. You are sized up in a second. What amuses me is American women are often very poor estimators of income potential. The poorest but creative guys with a vision often make more than the banker how in mid-career loses his job. It is like the universe has a strange sense of irony.
Similar the girls guys go for in the USA are often the wrong ones. My message is be open to the rest of the world. You can meet a girl (in the USA or abroad) who is not as materialistic and who will truly love you for who you are.
There is no way you or I can personally chance these macro societal trends, the only thing we can do is choose not to live them personally.
Hey Admin thanks for shooting me an update. I guess im just not sure other women are really better. I base this off a small sample true, but all I’ve seen is conniving and backstabbing. I worked at a law office in Chicago and we had a lawyer who repeatedly married foreign women “overseas from some part of Asia” three times. Each in turn took the resulting children, half his money, and citizenship. Another friend in Florida married Russian, this one sits on her expanding bum all day demands he never sees his friend, refuses to work and leeches his income “all on McDonalds i suspect”. He got up the nerve to sneak out on day where a bunch of friends were sitting around outside around our fire, poor guy needed a drink so bad. She found out he “got out” and we watched through the window and she physically beat the crap out of him. Another example i can’t vouch for the nationality of this couple, beautiful woman though. Anyway, about a month after coming to America we met them. He was her personal slave, she never left the couch “Oh, i need water. make me a sandwich. Cook for our guest ect.” I brought up the sort of thing this article is on about and both of them had a laugh.
Maybe I just haven’t seen it, I am usually, closer to never really, around women. However I find it hard to believe that all those Jerry Springer shows represent reality for any kind of majority anywhere. If this is what you have been running into i can’t fault you, i would hightail it to japan too.
You know marriage is always and only about love and your one and only. If guys can not discern who is after them for their money or citizenship, it is really mostly their fault I am sorry.
For example, I would never date someone unless I know what moral compass they are guided by, not in words but actions over a period of time. Why are people so foolish about love? I mean who you spend 24/7 with forever is an important choice and you need to be aware of this.
My point is you should not exclude a girl based on her country, there are many countries besides the USA. But not everyone is a saint. And you know there are a lot of really good American girls. It is just that our American culture is a little bit money oriented and more than many other cultures. But not everyone is like this.
I know this isn’t meant to be taken subjectively on an individual level but i can’t help but feel a bit stung. I have slept in shelters, behind bushes, spent months without electricity, daily food and cordial water, in the name of being with my boyfriend. We where happy the whole time too, even got a little ladyen, lived on a boat for 9 months, again no electricity and i couldn’t be happier. We both work min wage jobs when we can as neither of us has had higher schooling. We also like to travel, we get up and walk from city to city when we are unemployed, down long country roads sleeping under whatever shelter we find along the way. But we are happy because we get excited about what we heard the new town has. We have decent times where we have housing and comforts. Anyway i have strayed from my point. In these travels i have met many couples like us doing the same things we are happily together. We had such a couple in Florida traveling to California on foot stay with us for a week or too on our little boat “home, 27 ft Irwin”. This relates to my above post in that i may be to far removed from the culture of what your calling American women and maybe I’m just not seeing things the way you are.
Melissa you are my case and point that there are many non materialistic and good people in the USA, conscious aware and concerned with love and not money.
I only tell guys, if they can not find this with the girl next door the night is large and the sky is full of stars in the sky and it is OK to look beyond your own area for your princess.
I am in Poland and I see a disproportional number of girls relative to Western Europe who think money is dirty and never, ever should enter into the love equation. Not all mind you but a large percentage. They will get married once and only to their one and only and stay with him all the years of her life.
Hi guys and thanks for these interesting topics,
Well, I m not American, but I do watch American series and like to brush up on my English and improve it. The thing is that I have been watch nice series Two and half men in all seasons, and I have got the feelings as you have already mentioned about relationships in the US. I m not sure if this series is only comedy and has nothing to do with reality!! But as far as I read from your posts and comments , it does give a picture about how difficult and complicated relations are in the US. For example, you see Charlie
(Charlie Sheen) in his Malibu beach house with considerably good care and money failed to find a stable woman who wants to settle down and have a family like any people on earth. They ve just left him for trivial, silly reasons making the idea of having a sincere and ever-lasting or long-term relationship sounds like a dream!!
More over, we watch his brother Alan in the early episodes of this series as a family guy trying to have these values and always turned down by the women who only think about their own selves and benefits.So, in the later episodes you find that Alan has really changed from that family seeking guy to someone like the man of the day or as what women need.
These were my observations, and I m not sure if it is right or wrong since I have never been to the US before or had any good contact with American people.
I like what you said about jobs. I find my coworkers here will work at home, do stuff on vacation and be on call after hours. When i go home i don’t check my work email, i don’t answer my phone. I live life. I actually had a conversation like this with my coworker. She wanted to take a day off and not be on call and do work. I told her go take your vacation and don’t bother checking anything and when you come back you can do the work. I work to live. While americans, Live to work it seems. Europeans have the right idea, thus they have all the vacation time, and I’ve heard they must take their vacation time! I’m thinking of taking a week to europe this summer, most likely staying a youth hostels, something cheap, and enjoy the life.
what an absolutely amazing article to have read. i wish i knew more about the author, i’m a little confused? how old is the author and was he born in the USA or did he come here later from the Ukraine?
don’t care this article appears to be geared towards younger people. i turned 47 on september 26th. i am an American woman and have never been married. i have been in a few long term relationships that could have lead to marriage but this was obviously not to be, or i would be married, right? i am not picky at all and even though i agree fully on your view of the american woman and how she picks a man, with money being first, that has never been me. i learned at a young age to be self-sufficient and never needed to settle for a man in order to have a roof over my head. i could not imagine at 21 years old being with a man just for his money, whom i didn’t love and was not attracted to, and now at 47 i feel no differently. my worst boyfriends were always the ones who were the most superficial and materialistic. my boyfriend who did not graduate highschool still found success in self-employment and had a humility and character about him that put my boyfriend with the Masters degree to shame. you just never know. i was raised very average middle class American, probably more towards lower-middle. my father was blue-collar & mom had 4 year degree but never made much money. with 3 siblings none of us were spoiled but got what we needed and childhood was happy. teen years difficult as you start to see materialism take over and see friends with rich dad’s getting cars for gifts, while you have to quit the track team you can start working after school at 15 to start to save for car and car insurance. but you adjust and you are not alone. i tended to have friends who were not materialistic and we shared our things and i learned to really appreciate what i had once i was making my own money & buying my own things, like my first car.
i will definitely try the praying thing for my soul mate. he likely is NOT here in the Northeast. i live in terrible area for a man of my type. plus i do not think there are too many men who understand what type of woman i am. they are less spiritual and i do not find any who pray regularly and have respect for God & the fact His son Jesus died for us so that we may have eternal life. many laugh at this or say cynical things and being 47, well you know what your priorities are. First, he must be a man of faith. being comfortable financially is really a fantasy at this point, lol – grateful to not be materialistic. i can’t miss what i never really had. even when i had a wonderful job and thousands of dollars in the bank, i still had an old tube tv and couldn’t care less about buying new toys. i grew a huge wardrobe of clothes & got many compliments from women and tell them all – THRIFT STORE – ALL OF IT! if you see me wearing high end designer clothes i certainly didn’t buy it brand new. what a waste to pay more.
great article & helped me to feel some hope, which i hadn’t felt in a while. wish i knew where the right geography for my type is. it is not where i live now, about an hour south of Philadelphia. I worry many men my age, especially if they are divorced, they want simple minded woman and some even seem to like it when the woman has children, which i find odd. sometimes i feel like it is a liability for me that i do not have children! i try not to dwell on that, why be more sad then would care to be? i was raised Catholic by 100% Polish mother – you do not have children unless you have husband, and this always seemed very reasonable to me and you are careful and not careless and “get pregnant, OOPS??? I don’t think so. it’s all part of the sloppy & careless american culture, or in many cases i fully believe many females have gotten pregnant by manipulation in order to trap man. the oldest trick in the book and still being practiced today. i have strong family background and character is important to me and it is hard to find. i am the odd exception in your article. i know there is a man out there for me and he will be blessed to find me and I him! we just need enough to have the basics for comfortable life, the fewer possessions the better. I am half Polish from mother and half Ukrainian from father & many men are often attracted to me by my eastern european beauty, lol! hey but true, a more unique beauty i have, not your hollywood beauty, eastern european beauty, no dyed hair and little makeup. most people say 47 no way! tee shirt & Levi’s blue jeans & wear same size as high school, good genetics? lots of overweight young people today. i might like to have a larger bustline but it is not to be. i wear size 2 or 4 pants so i guess i match in proportion. russian men are attractive as are ukrainian and polish men but i never see them around here. now i am lucky to see men who even look like men, plus are they even heterofriendshipual? so sad now this world.